TUTORIAL: OTB Summing, how to?!?

Thank you and very interesting! I think a diagram would help a lot because it’s quite difficult to get an overview of the signal flow just from text explanations.


If you want people to follow your model, philosophy, product etc., don’t insult them, act as if you’re having expectations placed on you that the person never asked of you, and then tell them to turn off their mind and simply do what you tell them to do.

I don’t need to “defend” “my model” I spend considerable amount of time, sharing my experience hoping to save someone else his time, or solve a few headaches. FREE for you to leverage, with nothing in there for me.

So feel free to experiment and if there is anything you can improve please ammend. Why the cautious attitude, merely sharing knowledge here, if there is room to improve, please by all means feel free.

raphies way to do this is the only way to get it working in a professional way.
i just setup in cubase 7 and in 2 days of trying i couldnt find a better solution.

re-recording the sum into cubase is not an option i want it to get straight to the stereo-bus to use the export-function.

of course, the best way to get it done would be if it was possible to define a “INPUT” to a group, but unfortunately cubase doesn’t want to :wink:

Thnx still working this way as well, And I agree, current workflow demands an external input to mapped directly on the master channel. Without the need to monitor or arm a track to record.
The workflow works, as the signal flow works, it’s just steinberg who needs to define a neater option for external summing in the VST connections settings

Thnx still working this way as well, And I agree, current workflow demands an external input to mapped directly on the master channel. Without the need to monitor or arm a track to record.
The workflow works, as the signal flow works, it’s just steinberg who needs to define a neater option for external summing in the VST connections settings

A quick question:

I’ve got this working well and I can see the advantage. Were using a a Lynx AES16e/Aurora and a DBox. The only issue I have (and I may have got this wrong) is I have no more available outputs from the card as its all being used up by outboard. Where can I assign my main mix to so as to be able to preview imports etc?

I believe I would have to either sacrifice a stereo out used by outboard or use one of the outputs going to the DBox, thus having 6 channels available for the sum as opposed to 8. I can plug into the analog input on the Dbox and monitor from there but I would still be down a stereo output using this method (?)

The only other disadvantage I see is that you cant get a visual on the levels of each summing group, only the sum mix, especially if your summing mixer doesnt have channel input metering. Its nice to see if your clipping the DA going out to the summing mixer. But as I’ve said I may have got the setup wrong!


When you say “Lynx AES16e/Aurora” are you talking about the Aurora 16? If so, it has a LED meter that goes red when you’re clipping either out or in.

Yeah the Aurora 16 has 2-part LEDs, not exactly ideal but will do. I’m more restricted by the fact that I have no more available outputs to use as a main mix monitor. If I’ve set this up correctly, this method requires as many outs as your summing mixer has ins, plus another stereo out.

I was confused by the description where it said ‘add an additional external instrument called SUM’. This is meant to be an additional external FX path is it not?

My understanding is that the SUM is an" input only" External FX, which allows you to hear the main mix out of the summing mixer. This is done by setting up an FX channel that has the SUM external FX in the first insert. So, like any hardware insert, the signal comes in from the hardware, which in this case is the output of the summing mixer. The output of the SUM FX channel then goes to the “Main Mix” within Cubase.

What I don’t understand is, in using this external FX /Subgroups/SUM FX channel method, why the external FX’s need to be placed in separate inserts slots of the Subgroups. If the output routing is determined for the external FX’s in the VST Connections window, why does the place in the insert slot of the Subgroups matter?

In my case, I have no more available outputs for main mix do this method won’t work for be in our current setup :frowning:

Not sure if I understand your last question? Can u elaborate?

I was confused on where to put the Extermal FX. I now understand that you have to put the external FX into insert 7 or 8 because these are postfader - which means you can still do volume adjustments on the group, for example to fit the input gain of the summing mixer.

Yes you can do that, i prefer to keep my subgroups at unity gain so i do them pre fader/line level, but it’s reallyna matter of preference. But the subgroups is where the signal leaves daw and th fx return is where it gets back into the daw

Hi!!!Raphie…first of all thank you for putting up such an effort for sharing your knowledge with us!i searched for a person like you on the Internet!Finally :slight_smile:Really appreciate that.I recently bought the Neve 8816 and i intend to using it with a steinberg mr816x…but I’m really confused how to setup those units together.But before i can come to the setup you described…First of all the neve has a “Mix Out” and a “Main Spk” out.I want to use all 8 analogue outs of the mr816x for summing but my Speakers are connected to analogue out 1 and 2 on mr816x.Does that mean i have to sacrifice those analogue outs for monitoring or is there a way to monitor with all 8 outs used for summing…maybe connect the speakers to the MIX OUT or MAIN SPK from the Neve???

Thanks Man!!

Yes once you’ve purchased the right cables you will use your neve as monitoring device.

So signal flows from MR outs to neve ins
Neve’s main mix back into a pair of MR inputs

Thanks Man!So all you can monitor is the mix after it hits the Neve?
I will try to follow your steps as you stated at the beginning :slight_smile:But what confuses me is…the whole summing process happens during or after the mixing process??Like…when I’m mixing in the this setup that you described what do i monitor during the mix?

Thanks again!

So you are actually summing ITB… But running your busses out to (and back from) your mixer for analog coloring, using the external FX in the FX channels as returns?
If so, you are still “summing” to a stereo track ITB :confused:

Or are you actually summing OTB to a 2-Bus (Stereo Mix - which is the summing part), and recording it back on a Stereo track in Cubase?

Two VERY different things there. Analog coloring and analog summing.

Sorry, but…

… Routing out separate busses for analog coloring is a whole lot different than summing to a stereo track in the analog realm.

PS. I am aware that this is an old thread, but curious.

Are you still workig this way? Or have you changed your way?

Thanks for this tutorial. Actually I am recently working on a paper about the oldest version of cubase and I hope your thread is useful for my paper. And also I would like to make a presentation on this topic, I think it is perfect for my assignment work

Hello and many thanks because I found very useful this trick.
I have only one question:
In this way I cannot see the meters on the subgroups channels, I mean, If I send 8 drum tracks on subgroup channel called “drums” I cannot see the meter on it to see if I’m going over or not.
Obviously I can put the metering view on “in” instead of “after pan” but this can only be done for all the mixer channels and not for single ones.
Did I make something wrong or I am right please? If yes, is there a workaround?

I’m actually on Cubase 9.

Many thanks to all.