"Verve" not appearing in Halion 6/Sonic/SE

I can’t seem to find this issue in the forums, but I very well could just not be asking the right questions. I installed Cubase 12 and Verve just to try it out, but even though Verve appears as registered in Library Manager, it doesn’t appear in Halion 6/Sonic/SE. Am I doing something wrong here? Can’t seem to find it anywhere.

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Please make sure to install the latest version of HALion Sonic SE. Since Verve is making use of Steinberg Licensing, only HALion Sonic SE is currently able to load it.

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Starting versions of Cubase/Nuendo that rely on the elicencer give an error on startup when loading C12 content

namely:

“Verve Presets”

obviously this is due to the new content licensing being ‘invisible’ to C11/N11 and earlier - a bit annoying. I assume SB gave up on making this error free ?

For similar reasons the current Halion (full version) doesn’t see the new content either - you are stuck with Sonic SE

no license found error!
but it opened a minute ago normally!

what’s that???

can somebody help, please?!

Thanks for the reply, Matthias. Please excuse my ignorance here, but is there a way to simply ‘update’ a Steinberg product instead of re-downloading? For example, my copy of Cubase 11 is still installed after installing Cubase 12. Will this also happen when I update Halion to the newest version?

You can delete your Cubase 11 application after installing Cubase 12 as you like.

We implemented a solution for users upgrading from Cubase 11 to Cubase 12, which will be the majority of the users encountering this situation.

@Ben_at_Steinberg Thanks to both of you for your help. I see that Halion 6 updates, whereas Cubase 12 is a full new install. Just for my clarification for the future… is it the case that where updates to things like Halion 6 will update the existing program (to 6.4.40 for example), but when the software moves to a new base version (7 for example) it will be a brand-new install?

hi Ben

unfortunately @steve merged my thread from earlier - with a ‘solved’ thread ? about a different issue - my thread predates the thread it was merged with.

yes I understand the reason for the problem - and yes I’m using Cubase 11 AND Nuendo 11 so I fit into your ‘majority of users’ bracket too.

@steve it would be good to ‘unmerge’ this thread because it has implications for any newly released plugins/content etc that Steinberg release that use the new licensing scheme, which I assume is everything going forward ?

The Verve situation is somewhat special as it is content that was bundled with Cubase 12. New plugin and content released in the future will be handled differently - so I wouldn’t assume too much.

Yes, major versions of our software install alongside the previous versions. Minor versions will replace the existing installation.

@Ben_at_Steinberg

Verve is currently available as a separate purchase

I’m assuming (?) this is also using the new licensing system as the C12 supplied one - this means anyone buying it and attempting with C11/N11 and below is going to get the same error/warning on starting the application ? Although I realise HSSE will see the library fine

Again, with the assumptions. :wink:

No, the standalone product ships with an eLicenser code because the main HALion product line hasn’t completed the transition to Steinberg Licensing yet.

HALion Sonic SE that ships as a component of Dorico 4 and Cubase 12 is a hybrid product that understands both Steinberg Licensing and eLicenser.

I’m glad you’re interested in this topic. Please be assured that we’re aware of the complexities of the dependencies between our products and the implications for how they’re licensed.

You’ll understand that we have to make assumptions because the communication between company/customer sometimes isn’t always as smooth as we (customers!) would like :wink:

The devil is always in the detail but the understanding was that ‘new’ products would be using the ‘cloud’ licensing - but it seems some are using both/either

Transitioning to a new licensing scheme was never going to easy (understatement!) - and there are many potential ‘edge case’ problems. As you are still giving away elicencer codes for new products it’s odd you didn’t do that to C12 customers too for Verve avoiding the problem all together.

The install base for C12 is vastly outweighed by v11 and below users. Personally I would have thought that making the transition as transparent or invisible as possible outweighs any possible advantage to having some Verve users on an error-generating new licence and some on a elicenser.

You could have very quietly added Verve to the C11/N11 elicenser and nobody would have noticed either.

I can think of some other potential solutions to this ‘dual licenser’ dilemma too, but I suspect that ship has sailed

PS - credit where credit is due, ALL other aspects of the new licence system were totally smooth for me so congratulations on that Ben.

You are oversimplifying the situation.

Steinberg content is often licenced in multiple ways. I have Olympus Choir Micro and HALion Symphonic Orchestra on my system, which are enabled by three bundle licences: my Dorico 4 Pro licence (Steinberg Licensing), my Dorico 3.5 Pro (not upgradeable) licence (eLicenser) and my Absolute 5 licence (eLicenser). Both are also available as a standalone products.

I suspect, but cannot confirm, that Olympus Choir Micro and HALion Symphonic Orchestra behave the same as Verve for those who purchased Dorico 4 outright (so their only Dorico licence will be a Steinberg Licensing one). There are bound to be a few edge cases with Steinberg Licensing that resolve over time - I’d call it part of the pain of moving to a much-needed new licensing system.

Your suggested solutions are inappropriate. Why should Steinberg give away standalone Verve licences to Cubase 12 owners on request (which they could later sell) or add Verve to Cubase 11 and Nuendo licences (giving away one of the benefits of upgrading to version 12) just to prevent an annoying error message? Installing Verve alongside Cubase 12 is optional - if you don’t want issues with non-Steinberg Licensing hosts, don’t install it for now. As Verve is new, nobody has existing projects requiring it. Conversely, HALion Symphonic Orchestra is core content for Dorico Pro, as it is used by the default playback template.

The only eLicenser work-round I would think is appropriate is to add Verve to Cubase 11 (not upgradeable) licences - as those users must also own Cubase 12.

In time, further updates should remove these error messages and quite possible open things up to how they would have been under eLicenser - bundled HALion content works in all hosts via all editions of the current version of HALion. There are a lot of complex dependencies as @Ben_at_Steinberg has said, and there are bound to be a few rough edges during the transition. Whilst Steinberg are getting on with rolling out Steinberg Licensing, can we not show them a bit of grace until they’ve completed transition?

Hi David - I don’t think I am oversimplifying it ?

But ultimately you believe that the current solution of throwing an (annoying) licensing error on ALL other versions of Cubase and Nuendo is an acceptable solution to the problem and I don’t.

it’s not about right or wrong - we just don’t happen to agree.

I believe that you were oversimplifying the situation by leaping to “hide all visible signs of the edge cases by issuing additional eLicenser licences or giving away additional rights free of charge”. There are ways of fixing the problems you face without giving away free additional licences.

If eLicenser has to provide a temporary work-round, then surely the most targeted precise response is, as I suggested, to add Verve to Cubase 11 (not upgradeable) licences, as these users have upgraded to Cubase 12. That will not help those who bought Cubase 12 outright, however.

Perhaps the easiest work-round is to silence content licence warnings in the dual-licence versions of HALion Sonic SE and Groove Agent SE until a more permanent solution is found.

EDIT: I couldn’t find Verve either, but then I went to where I downloaded it, double-clicked on it a second time (the first time it said it was already added or something along those lines) and then this time the library manager gave me a different popup box with the option to “register in place.”
Then it showed up.

The issue isn’t the licence checking/warnings in HSSE or GASE. It’s versions of Cubase prior to v12 and ALL version of Nuendo, They do a content scan on startup and that generates the error. Obviously they can’t see the licence for Verve that is in the NEW licence manger so throw the error.

As we’ve both pointed out there are different ways that Steinberg could have handled this - you don’t agree with my suggestions, which is you are perfectly entitled to. And I don’t agree that it’s ‘not a problem’ - which I’m entitled to as well.

I do, however, agree that adding Verve to Cubase 11 (not upgradable) is a reasonable solution…although in my particular case it wouldn’t help. I have various cubase/nuendo dongles and only one dongle has an upgraded licence and that’s not actually the one in the PC running C12.

I was expecting to see Verve as a standalone instrument. It apparently is just a piano instrument within Halion and described as a felt piano not as Verve. If I wasn’t lying in bed typing this I’d remember the exact title!