Very strange fader/level/automation behaviour in Cubase 13 pro

I have just discovered a very strange and annoying behaviour in Cubase 13.
If I have a track with some volume automation (using virgin territory) and in a section of virgin territory where there is no automation data if I pull the fader down, moments later the level of that track returns to its previous level i.e. it jumps back up BUT the fader remains all the way down on the screen (also true of the fader on my A+H GSR24M console). This is extraordinary. I can’t lower the level of any track without it jumping back to its previous level and the fader remains completely down. If I turn off READ automation the problem goes away but that’s not the point. I should be able to just pull a fader down and have that level remain down…or at least when the level jumps back up the fader should go back up along with the level as though it was reading automation. I opened the same project in Cubase 10.5 and this problem does not exist. I’ve read some other posts about strange level changes in Cubase 13 so here’s another one. Any help or ideas will be welcome. Thank you.
Also I’ve just noticed that if I remove all automation data and have the track in READ mode, when I move a fader up via mouse left button and then let go, the level of that track immediately drops to nothing while the fader remains up. If I hold the left mouse button down on the raised fader the level goes up to where it should be but as soon as I release the mouse button the level drops down to zero and the fader remains up. Again, the only way to stop this at the moment is to turn off READ. What on earth is going on? I’ve never seen this before and it certainly doesn’t happen when I open the same project in Cubase 10.5 pro. Help!!

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Hi,

Was the Automation Terminate feature in Cubase 10.5 already? I know, it came to Cubase from Nuendo, but I don’t remember when was it.

Is it using Mackie Control protocol or anything else? Do you use Mackie Control device in Cubase or do you use MIDI Remote script?

Does it behave the same, if you move the fader on the hardware and also in Cubase? Does it behave the same, if you keep your hardware switched off?

Do you mean, you keep the mouse down (no release)?

Do you mean, there is no sound?

Can you ask if these reproduce with any project or just a specific one, please?

In a time range without Volume Automation, the track level should actually always correspond to the currently, manually set fader value. In reality, however, the track level jumps to the value that corresponds to the fader position “0 dB”, immediately after the fader is released. As if a “hidden” automation curve with a 0 dB level were working, even though none is written there.

Hi,

The use case for the Virgin Territory is to playback the territory in loop and try to find the correct fader level while touching and moving it. Once you find the right level, you can use one of the Fill function (probalby Gaps or Loop), to set the automation.

Thanks Martin, I will try to answer all your questions. Firstly, the “Define an Automation Terminator Point” feature is included in Cubase 10.5.
The behaviour I have described occurs even with my hardware console switched off.
Ive found an error in my original description “Also I’ve just noticed that if I remove all automation data and have the track in READ mode, when I move a fader up via mouse left button and then let go, the level of that track immediately drops to nothing while the fader remains up. If I hold the left mouse button down on the raised fader the level goes up to where it should be but as soon as I release the mouse button the level drops down to zero and the fader remains up.”…in this case I discovered that there was another automation point set at -infinity which was located BEFORE the actual audio event i.e. outside the track…once I deleted that automation point this particular problem disappeared.
However the basic problem is still the same. That is, Why does the level of the track go back to its previous automation level but the fader does not move? If the fader moved as it usually does when following automation it wouldn’t be a problem as I could see what was happening but the fader stays down once I pull it down during a virgin territory area with no automation data. I am going to assume that even though there is no automation data in that area, the level returns to that which was set at the LAST data point before the virgin territory area. But surely the fader should follow? I have my console switched off while this is happening so when I refer to the fader it is the fader on-screen in Cubase. And it doesn’t happen in Cubase 10.5.
If I DO switch my console on, the console fader also doesn’t move when the level changes. I suspect this is a software glitch or maybe I need to change some setting regarding Terminator Point . It’s pretty weird. If the fader jumped back up along with the level of the track in this virgin territory area then I would assume it is reverting to the last -previous automation point but the fader stays at -infinity while the level jumps up.
This happens in other projects too. I just wrote some volume automation in another project using virgin territory. After the automation data, I pulled the fader down (with left mouse button and drag) and as soon as I let the mouse button go, the level of the track returned to its previous level but the fader remained at -infinity. This doesn’t happen in Cubase 10.5. I don’t know whether it happens in CBase 11 or 12 as I don’t have them. It’s weird and annoying to say the least.
I should add a big thank you for even taking the time to read all this stuff and I am fully prepared to be told that I’ve made some basic mistake. I’m sure I don’t fully understand the difference between “Static Value” and “Virgin Territory” as I read the operation manual every time I start automating! Anyway, I still think that the fader should reflect the change in level. Many thanks to you Martin and ASM.

Thank you ASM. What you’ve said here seems to exactly explain what I have described. Do you also observe that the fader remains where it is manually set even though the actual level jumps back to “0dB”? Surely the fader should always reflect the level?

Thank you once again.

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Thank you Martin, my understanding of virgin territory is limited and what you’ve said here is most helpful thank you!

Yes, that’s how it should be!
Of course one can discuss the behaviour in areas without Automation. I.e. whether the Fader should follow the Level (your preference) or the Level should follow the Fader (my preference). Anyway, I think the two should ALWAYS be in sync!

Er, yes. I hadn’t even thought of fader following level v level following fader but I agree of course…they should always be in sync. Thank you so much for you very helpful comments and information.

Good grief, I think I finally understand this. When adjusting automation which you’ve already written, you can test run the new levels by moving the fader and holding it. Once you let go, the fader stays where you’ve left it (the new position) but the level jumps up (or down) to the previous automation level which is actually very useful to compare where you are now with what was before. If you like it then enter write mode and re-write the automation. Actually quite useful now that I understand it. Thank you all very much for your help and advice!!!

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