Vibrato on Classical guitar using key or score editor

[CoeurDeLion]

Hi folks.

Please forgive my noobness…

I simply want to make a vibrato note within Cubase Key or Score Editor using a classical guitar Steinberg VST intrument. (I don’t have any external interfaces nor want to do anything in production stage… as yet)

So far I can successfully use expression maps in Halion Symphonic orchestra(HSO) by importing key switches, inserting a few notes via key editor or score editor, and then using bottom left drop down I can pick articulations and dynamics to then make a note tremolo, pizzacato etc depending what “key switch” HSO instrument provides within a instrument expression map.

But unfortunately HSO doesnt provide a guitar ? So within Cubase PRO 9 Halion Sonic SE 2.0.2 there are a number of guitars which I again can import key switches (those marked VX, e.g Nylon Vx) and can “expression” successfully. But unfortunately the articulations provided that I can see are mute, slap, hammer, slide and harmonics - but no vibrato.

So as vibrato is surely a common guitar technique and there is for example a con vibrato articulation in the expression map setup list then I thought could ADD another sound slot (con vibrato) but this didn’t appear to work on any of the Sonic SE Vx guitar instruments. I also created my own expression map for the Sonic SE GM 025 nylon guitar and added the sounds slots, articulations, output mapping and directions as per Expression map playing back actual key switch notes - #4 by vic_france - Cubase - Steinberg Forums and other posts but again failure (no change to any sound). And discovered that Hammer articulation and others in the Nylon VX doesn’t exist in the normal expression map set up list?

The creating expression map section of the user guide doesn’t make it clear to me, but Hesca116 appears to confirm in Score Editor - Symbols to sound - Cubase - Steinberg Forums that you are stuck with whatever the VST instruments are giving in terms of articulation key switches?

I have also tried using midi editor to within the length of one original note simply create multiple notes of alternating pitch
to make a sort of tremelo effect but not ideal. Previously I’ve tried fiddling with pitchbend based on a forum idea(now lost) but again very limited results here so far.

So could anyone confirm to me :

Is it actually possible to create “new” articulations other than those in Vx instruments and present them to say GM 025, or similarly change/add articulations in the nylon VX. If so back to the drawing board…

Is there any Classical guitar in any other Steinberg product which does provides a vibrato articulation

Does the the Straight nylon sound in Halion 6 contain a vibrato articulation? (Chris hein doesn’t appear to btw)

Is the Nylon Vx in Sonic SE any different than the Halion 6 straight nylon

Thanks very much

[misohoza]

So could anyone confirm to me :

Is it actually possible to create “new” articulations other than those in Vx instruments and present them to say GM 025, or similarly change/add articulations in the nylon VX. If so back to the drawing board…

No, as far as I know. You can do certain things like dynamics mapping, staccato, tenuto, accent. But these will just alter velocity or note length. Can be useful if you use score editor.
But in general you’re stuck with whatever articulations the instrument has.

Is there any Classical guitar in any other Steinberg product which does provides a vibrato articulation

Halion 6 has a preset called Studio Nylon Classical Guitar. It has a vibrato keyswitch.


But you could try to fake it with note expression. Change the tuning slightly.

[CoeurDeLion]

Thank you very much for this Misohoza

My plan then is to at some point shortly download the trial of Halion 6 and check out Studio Nylon and how well the vibrato works on this, but currently wavering over price (UK £280) if this is all I need it for, when of course if I can get note expression to work then why bother? I’ll check out Halion comparisons also to see what else there is over Sonic SE.

But firstly I want to try your suggestion

But you could try to fake it with note expression. Change the tuning slightly.

In my investigation of articulations I obviously noticed note expression but didn’t manage to get over the understanding hurdle on this, couldn’t get it to work, and it seemed at the time a bit convoluted compared to expression map articulations hence focus on the latter. But didn’t try hard enough obviously …

Anyway restarting on Note expression now , will see how it goes and will report back as I progress. Then at some point compare these two ways forward !

Thanks very much again

[misohoza]

Hi CoeurDeLion.

I tried to come up with something to create vibrato effect and actually there may be an easier way than using note expression and tuning parameter.

Halion Sonic SE2 has two presets (Nylon Guitar VX, Natural Nylon NoteExp) which can do vibrato. While they don’t have a keyswitch for vibrato they respond to modwheel. So you can create vibrato by recording modwheel or drawing CC1 data.

So if you really want you could create a vibrato articulation in expression map.

But in my opinion the best option here is to draw in CC1 data in key editor controller lane or using note expression (again CC1 parameter) where you can change the amount of vibrato per note.

[raino]

Just to clarify. The articulations available will always be determined by what the VSTi/Preset offers. You can’t create new articulations for an instrument. That’s because, using your example, having a vibrato articulation can only occur if the instrument includes samples that have vibrato (or can mimic it in some way). If the instrument doesn’t have the capability of producing vibrato, adding a vibrato articulation to a map will not magically give the instrument that capability.

[CoeurDeLion]

Hi, thanks and sorry for delay Misohoza and Raino
(Just spent 10 mins trying to work out how this forum sends you an email if you get a reply, like other forums I use, but still can’t find it if there is one at all ?)

Ok Raino. Yes I understand what you are saying. The VST/Preset must include a vibrato sample (or able to mimic it) to be able to produce a vibrato (articulation). And in real life instruments can only produce certain articulations. I’m well aware that HSO for example is sold on being based on high quality live samples and assume same for Halion. I did briefly google to see what the most popular guitar articulation is in my angst with why Steinberg haven’t included vibrato articulation in SE VX guitars but didn’t get anything worthwhile back. But I also read your post has not indicating that our attempts are a nugatory exercise.

MisoHoza
Apologies again for my noobness.
My initial attempt at replicating what you did in the PNG didn’t work for me but no doubt my issue. My default root for the Nylon Vx was C-2 so I reset remote keys to get initial note at C-1, but then wondered why in your output mapping the Note on Data 1 says C0, so tried with both this C0 and then G1 for the new vibrato I’d created, and in given my lack of knowledge just typed in CC 1 (Modulation) in the controller output mapping? Then saving the new map I applied the articulation to a note but no effect. But will have another look.
But need to understand what you are saying first !

“Respond to modwheel”. I dont have external keyboard so not sure how to use the VST mod wheel variably.
At this stage don’t know what CC1 data is so working on that now !

Yesterday incidentally I tried note expression and the tuning /( I used pitchbend) as you suggested firstly, and managed to get “various forms” of vibrato. On the assumption that the ideal vibrato is a sine wave I managed using the sine line tool to produce sine waves but struggled to work out how to extend the width/length of the wavelength/cycle. (the gaps in pitch in the vibrato)
The amplitude(pitch) was changeable using the scale vertically / scale round center part of the note expression box but still figuring out what the parameters are of this amplitude and guessing this relates to the min max figures in the note expression menu.

I actually got the best results using the line tool and producing square waves but gave up on the draw pen …

So currently looking at drawing CC1 data and further on note expression

Thanks again both

[misohoza]

“Respond to modwheel”. I dont have external keyboard so not sure how to use the VST mod wheel variably.
At this stage don’t know what CC1 data is so working on that now !

Modwheel usually generates CC1 midi messages (continuous controller).
You can easily draw them in key editor.

At the bottom of key editor you should see a controller lane by default displayng velocity. Click the plus button to add another lane. Click the downward triangle to bring up the menu and select “CC1 Modulation”. Use pencil tool to draw new CC1 events. Higher cc1 value should create more vibrato like effect. Set the value to zero for no vibrato.

You can do the same with note expression. Select “CC1 Modulation” from note expression parameters.

[CoeurDeLion]

Hi Misohoza

I replicated your png and achieved a vibrato I’m happy with

I also incidentally created a pitchbend lane and also changed the quantize presets to 1/16th which allowed me to create closer waves and also achieved results I’m happy with.

Still a lot more work to understand it all but thanks very much for your help

Back to composing at last !