<> visible in score, not in part − remedy?

[LAE]

Hi all,

in the score I have:

But in the part:

If I adjust the note spacing, the right hairpin shows up and I can adjust it to my liking:

Is this the way to go, or is there some clever setting I am not aware of?

[Edit: I am using two separate hairpins, not messa di voce.]

[jesele]

You can try to change this under Library->Engraving Options->Dynamics->Gradual Dynamics->Advanced Options.

Jesper

And perhaps rather this:

[TonH]

Adding to @jesele

Did you accidentally check to hide hairpins which are shorter?

[LAE]

OMG yes!

From the viola part.
I will uncheck that one right away, did not even know about it!

[Christian_R]

Hi @LAE, besides the useful suggestions above, the disappearing hairpin in your example is also caused (if the values are below the minimum which will be not shown, as suggested) by the hairpins having a slight gap (empty space) between them: < >

To make sure sure this kind of hairpin is always visible, you can insert it as a messa di voce, without the gap between them: <>

[LAE]

But there is no way to enforce minimum lenght for all hairpins, or is there?

[LAE]

@Christian_R

To make sure sure this kind of hairpin is always visible, you can insert it as a messa di voce, without the gap between them: <>

Yes, I think I tried that as well. But sometimes I refrain from using them − messa di voce will usually look symmetrical and fine in the parts, but not in the score where the spacing of other instruments distort it.

But maybe in this case it might be worth it − adjust once in score, don’t worry about the parts!

[jesele]

Doesn’t changing the Engraving Option do that?
Try set to 1.

Jesper

[LAE]

Nah, here I have minimum length set to 3, and the hide check box unchecked:

That hairpin is not 3 spaces wide.

[Christian_R]

@LAE

messa di voce will usually look symmetrical and fine in the parts, but not in the score where the spacing of other instruments distort it.

Can you upload just a couple of bars showing this asymmetry? Just for us to experiment.

@LAE

in the score where the spacing of other instruments distort it.

@LAE
Edit: did you try changing this Engraving option? (just below the other suggested one):

[jesele]

But from your original part picture, there’s not enough space to draw it with 3 as the setting. With 1 it should.

Jesper

[LAE]

Yes, true. Here I was thinking about a setting to force a certain length of hairpin no matter what!

[LAE]

Good idea! It helps to a certain extent:

This is just a new file with some notes to show the problem.
The setting affected the second mdv, but not the first.
test.dorico (1.3 MB)

But unfortunately, in my original example, it does not do anything − now with messa di voce:

I understand that it cannot affect the f-g# in the Vl. II, but Vl. I and Vla ought to be affected.

And my idea to use mdv and make them symmetrical in the score does not work either − the inflection cannot be set locally. So back to the pair of hairpins.

[Christian_R]

Thank you for the file, @LAE

One way to “force” the MDV to be centered would be to insert a Note Spacing Change for the affected bars (or beats) in the Score layout, but probably you don’t want this… :

[LAE]

Good idea − that might work for special cases. But you are right, I probably don’t want it

In 19th century music it is my impression that they threw in this kind of <> just to get some expression; in the gist of the time it would be better if they didn’t line up with anything but just kept their symmetry. I think this has been discussed many times so maybe one day…!

I wonder why the option to keep it symmetrical for the end of the bar exists, but not for the beginning.

[Christian_R]

@LAE

I wonder why the option to keep it symmetrical for the end of the bar exists, but not for the beginning.

Me too.