Thanks
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Cubase 12.
Except that SB said it will make it easier to get better stability going.
Yeah but you buy something with the expectation that whatever it is you buy works under the conditions you bought it. If it says “compatible with x,y,z” then that’s what that means. You can’t assume that a Windows software you bought in 2010 will work on any future Windows version in 2030. There’s a limit to expectations. If it says that you can use your VST2 product in a VST2 DAW and you bought a VST2 DAW then you’re good. None of them is promising you forward-compatibility.
“works as advertised” is still true even in the future if it was “advertised” as working with what you got when you got it.
As for switching DAWs: I work with PT and Nuendo all the time, meaning both, hours and hours. And it takes a long time to get proficient on one DAW. So I really wonder if you would be better off switching to another DAW compared to just upgrading/replacing the third party software you’re using. I think both in terms of direct monetary expenses and time (which is also money) you’re likely not ending up with a net positive after a DAW switch… I could be wrong though…
Yet…every other piece of enterprise software I’ve ever owned (For Windows, with the exception of Quicktime (or anything that used it)…and of course, not so for Mac)…even since MS-DOS days, still gives me access to my data, and I can still get working projects on modern hardware. I was even able to run some scripts to convert ancient Postscript Type I fonts (many stuff we made in house so it’s not like we could just replace it with a simple purchase) into something I can still use in modern Adobe. I can still get Flash…AIR Dev Kits and run-time stuff, and it still works.
Before they moved on, they built in a path for backward compatibility. Our machines wear out, hardware progresses, but our DATA and work is still ours and for enterprise class software, there always needs to be a way to play it back as intended, or batch-convert it to something that can.
Worked in a hospital data department for a while. Yes, they STILL have to be able to access all their old files, still have to run cobol, pascal, and more. Yes, alot of that old stuff used dongles too (but still maintain a path of some kind to open and use your stuff to this day). They do it with modern hardware.
In the case of VST2, there doesn’t seem to be any real valid technical reason to put up a brick wall with VST2, at the exact same time the licensing system is changing unless Cubase 12 is going to be SO BLAZINGLY AMAZING that it’s essentially a brand-new DAW from the ground up. New ASIO. New devices and interfaces. Etc…
Who wants to pay for a big release but actually find out it’s a major step backwards, that could take years before it’s actually very ‘useful’ in a working enterprise situation?
Again, we’ll see.
Steinberg has always taken good care of us in the past in this respect. Hopefully they will again. They may have innovative ideas and plans in place far superior to anything I can think of to keep us all fat and happy. So far that doesn’t seem to be the posture. The news is forceful and a bit vague.
Several staple products that exist in homes and pro studios all over the world, and will for some time yet could CONFLICT with everything we’ve been building as end users.
I did purchase a VST2 DAW. It’s called Cubase. I chose it over others because it had the best legacy support and backwards compatibility in the business. They even still provide avenues to get stuff I made in the 90s, on a different platform up and running. It kept on working with 4 racks of old synths. It still works with my tape decks and stand-alone recorders. There’s very little ever sold in the music industry since the day MIDI became a thing that I can’t plug into Cubase and make it work (and yes, people come into the studio and hand me all kind of stuff to revive and run with).
Controllers, effect units, synths, plugins, you name it. That’s WHY I picked this one. Great for composing. Great for recording. Great for importing/exporting/archiving. Sounds good, and for what it sometimes ‘lacks’ in wiz-bang features…there’s usually a bolt on plugin to fill the gap. Great for syncing to other gear. Stable. Reliable.
I could have gotten something like MixCraft for a fraction of the price, but it wouldn’t talk to my equipment. Same goes for stuff like Ableton, Bitwig, etc…they never supported all this stuff, and never will.
H5? One reason I got it was because I could get into archives of Roland and AKAI sample disks. It was about the ‘only’ product on the market that could do that quickly, and be up and running in projects in seconds flat.
Write off 34+ years’ worth of faithful enterprise class users without some public commitments to maintain and preserve data with as little fuss as possible on our part, without delivering ONE HECK OF A NEW SYSTEM that really is light years ahead of what we’ve been using (not 8 steps backwards to what amounts to a dumb consumer app)…and I don’t think it’ll go over well.
And for what it’s worth…
My VST3 plugins crash 10 to none vs the VST2 plugins.
HALion 5 and Groove Agent 4 were two of the crashiest plugins I’ve ever owned.
I’m still having issues with VST3 versions of Play 6 and Opus to this day. I have to bridge them through Bidule (another VST2 plugin that can somehow ‘host’ VST3, and even supports side-chaining, yet it’s VST2 to the host) and force a switch (sync play parameter always active) that Cubase doesn’t do in order to use the wordbuilder with the choir libraries. OPUS crashes anytime I hit a certian articulation key-switch, and it ‘sounds weird’ when trying to host the choir libraries. Roll back to Play 5, and all is well. Hmm…
I have libraries for Kontakt, Garritan, and more…that still aren’t up and running well under VST3 (or not at full feature support…).
Name a single other marching and concert band library besides Garritan I can migrate to, and I’m all ears. There’s a DCI thing for ‘full Kontackt 4 only’…and even that is kind of ‘out there’, and a bit expensive if you don’t already have the right NI setup. Tell me one that is affordable that I can recommend to students and hobbyists that might be interested in things like Cubase SE or Artist. They don’t exist yet, and might not for some time (if ever). Last thing we need is a brick wall between these libraries and Steinberg world.
Don’t wanna be backed up against a wall and left with only 2 options. Freeze, or lose everything.
None of this is we the users fault. We’ve been loyally and faithfully buying updates, need them or not to support this industry that we love and care about. All we’re asking/expecting is a pathway to keep our older stuff up and running across the licensing model gap. Even if at some point ahead it becomes a ‘you must roll back to get it’. At least it’ll still be there for ALL Steinberg users, dongle owners or not.
You’re missing the point I think.
If Cubase 12 does nothing for you then you won’t upgrade and the loss of VST 2 won’t hurt you because you won’t lose it. It’s still there in your current version which is the one you’re using because you didn’t upgrade to v12.
If Cubase 12 offers something for you then you’re still fine sine it supposedly will still support VST2. You get your upgrade and still have VST2.
If Cubase 13 offers nothing you’re still good. You still have either what you have today or v12 if you upgraded to that - with VST2.
If Cubase 13 offers something you’re still good. Because you still have all the old versions including v12 even if you didn’t upgrade to that as an intermediate step.
So I fail to see the problem here.
Cubase 12. Cubase 12.
For as long as my dongle works or I can get it serviced/replaced…tick tock…(point I’m not missing…it’s the change at the same time the licensing systems changes that I’m on about. Not the plans to phase out VST2. If it’s done at a point ALL users [such as those with no dongle] can easily roll back to a solid VST2 release then…)
Good. I should be fat and happy with the Cubase host for another release.
Will HALion, GA, and all that stuff get a VST2 release under the new licensing system as well?
If so, maybe I’m good to go.
??
…
Evidently it was Frankenhorse.
It was playing dead, the scoundrel!
guess it had enough rest, then!
Steve, I responded to direct quotes from my posts.
I still haven’t seen anything from Steinberg that says Cubase 12 and HALion/GA/etc, will support VST2.
I’m not ‘missing the point’. And I agree, I should drop it…if ‘my point is being missed’ about access to older content post-dongle and why that is quite important, then I digress.
I don’t see anything official that says Cubase 12 will include VST2 support. I don’t see anything about VST2 releases for the stand alone plugins like H7/GA6, and all the libraries that go with them.
Just last night I had to go through a ‘weird wresting match’ just to get HSSE 3.4 and/or 3.5 up in Sibelius (the installers no longer put a vst2 dll where it’s easy to find).
What we do see all over the internet are statements like this:
I’ll clench my teeth and try not to come back to this thread anytime soon.
Thanks for your ‘patience’.
I appreciate your posts here.
But the consensus is that it is what it is. It is a one way, hard-nosed attitude and there is nothing you can do about this.
What vibes though? They finally are actually discontinuing VST2. Did we really not see this coming? Again 2013 is when they stopped distributing the VST2 SDK… I’m really not sure what else there is to discuss.
It’s a pretty clear plan - After 14 years of VST3 being released, 24 months until VST2 is completely booted out. The thing with Apple computers happening quicker, that’s a problem for Apple users to complain to Apple about because they don’t care about backwards compatibility apart from having a feature to transfer all your stuff to the new device they forced you to buy.
I actually was aware of that thread as well as the long one on KVR… The type of contended plugins being discussed there are 00.01% of plugins.
It’s not entirely untrue, there’s been very few musicians out of the thousands I’ve encountered that actually know what MIDI is let a lone, even the simpler top level protocols (like 16 channels, Omni, etc). MIDI gave studio techs and sound programmers a lot of extra work back in the day.
It’s actually really no different than saying, most musicians don’t understand the VST SDK or code. MIDI is a type of code and data networking which is intended to be attached to a UI/Control scheme. The people using MIDI Inserts don’t understand anything about them, they just understand that button A does thing A, and button B does thing B.
It really is a terrible user experience… hence, when you look at features of MIDI 2.0 - there’s a big focus on ease of use… 2 way communication, smart/auto mapping of controls, etc.
These are all responsibilities for user. If someone is an engineer, getting into complicated technologies, they need to know what they are doing, and it will be a learning experience. The names listed have spent a life time learning, old tech vs new tech, having to move on from legacy stuff, etc.
Everyone has to adapt, or keep a legacy system. It has always been this way with everything. It’s just the way it is… 14 years people… 14 years…
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I have a mike which I bought in 1998, still works. There have been newer models. Didn’t have to trash my mike.
My MOTU sound card was purchased in 2000, still woks. There have been updates, didn’t have to trash my sound card.
Years don’t matter. When you pay for something, it should work.
But, e.g. , it’s the same thing with washing machines from the 50’s, they still work today.
Manufacturers got a sniff of this and started making machines with a shelf life.
It’s a corporate move, not a “natural” evolution.
I don’t mind the odd update. It’s making things obsolete which is the issue.
For me, nothing, that’s why my last post was 9 days ago that you replied to.
I agree with vast majority of what you say, as I have with most i’ve discussed on this matter.
My salient point is that there’s users who don’t follow developments, have no interest in forums, and are now reading the switch off as a ‘new’ thing as it’s hit them in a news article of some sort, subsequently reading developers like Xfer’s comments (As one example):
I don’t like to paint those users as ignorant, or that “They should’ve known years ago!”. Myself, I’m fine. I’m all for progression and I have the knowledge to archive projects of importance into audio tracks anyway.
A roadmap for the likes of UAD, NI etc. would’ve been a great assurance for users. And for an email to go out and explain the current state of affairs and key third party status, or even a list that’s managed which we can cross-reference and it has ‘planned’ for known development.
But it’s not a perfect world, so what can I say? That was simply an idealist solution as to what could be done better. Yet it’s labelled as ‘babysitting’ by yourself, I just simply see that as part of customer care… .But hey.
These threads are so overwhelming I pity anyone who comes on here from the back of reading a news report to get more understanding as there’s barely any middle ground sense here. It seems an impossibility to establish it too, but I guess that’s more a society issue nowadays, sick and tired of it really. 
Tempted to track it myself via a web page for people to cross reference.
And it does work. In the year 2050 you can still use VST2 in Cubase - as long as you have a computer that can run today’s OS version which can run today’s Cubase which can run today’s VST2 plugins.
And comparing hardware to software is silly. 3rd party plugins and instruments rely on the host which relies on the OS and all tie together with the hardware. All of those change much more over time than the system a washing machine interacts with.
Not really, not silly at all, it was suggested that the 2 are one and the same on an earlier post by suggestion…
In addition, MOTU works with drivers, still working to this day…just saying…
I want to use VST 2s on the latest Cubase,not having to go backwards and forwards because Steinberg can’t be bothered…and also creating a mausoleum of computers is something I am not prepared to do…
pardon?
Well in life you don’t always get what you want.
I am reminded of freeway signs stating ‘Left Lane Ends Ahead, Merge Right’, posted 2 miles before the terminal point. No matter how beneficial it would be for everyone to merge right ASAP, there are always some who wait until the very last second to move over. For some people, everything has to be done in a panic, no matter how much warning they’re given…
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Well, I am not “some people” and there is no panic, just a feeling of being appalled…