For people grousing about VST3, the time to voice your opinion was 10+ years ago, when VST3 warning signs were being posted, not now, when the warning phase is over and VST2 is vanishing. Your last-minute efforts aren’t going to accomplish anything.
I remember when I had to give up a MIDI sequencer that I absolutely loved because of an Apple OS upgrade. But I gained other things that outweighed the loss of the sequencer. Tech marches on.
OK, apologies for voicing my opinion.
End users don’t a give a rip if it’s VST9999 or BinkyDink0.1
They just want their projects to open and work. In the least there needs to be a way to get the fxb/fxp stuff out of a project so a user can get it moved into a host that does work. Sometimes that means rolling back and doing it all manually, but that’s a pretty bad way to treat customers.
Making a terabyte or more media-bay full of loopMIDI soundscapes and such, that people specifically purchased your product in order to be able to build obsolete when it’s not really necessary is down-right foolish.
It’s like saying, "Shame on you stupid users, for using a touted and hyped feature, of our software, that’s based on one of our VERY OWN protocols to accumulate a huge database of key-signature/time-flexible sounds at your fingertips.
We could keep it working but not further develop it without much fuss as a fall-back option, but to make a POINT (to developers, who for whatever reasons didn’t like/understand/find it lucrative or prudent to get with the VST3 program to our liking), we’re going to take it out on OUR LOYAL USERS, and shift the burden and expense of ‘converting all this’ over to the USER. Maybe a third party will help you at some point. Maybe not. Your problem user, and one we are unnecessarily passing on to you!"
Lecturing a user and saying he’s made a grievous mistake by using a library that happens to be quite nice, and the only one of its kind in the universe and is facing a possible decision to have to abandon it (or projects made with it in Cubase), or switch hosts for it…and voicing those concerns over stuff they have no control over (Developer and Company Drama) is just WRONG. Period.
In studios we don’t tell people what they can and cannot use to make music with. We do our best to accommodate them with whatever they want when they walk in the door, as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Some companies offer solutions to help keep clients happy, and some put up roadblocks then blame the userbase.
We’ll take ‘solutions’ for $1000 Alex.
Now it’s too early tell.
Perhaps Steinberg WILL take care of us. They’ve been really good about it in the past so I’ll keep some faith this transition will be fine as well.
Still, people are nervous, and it’s plain to see why.
I’m not entirely sure who you’re aiming that comment towards - end users?
See, 10 years ago you couldn’t have predicted that certain players wouldn’t have transferred across prior to a more definitive cutoff at the host level.
Many of these companies have been asked for VST3 support by their userbase for many years. So are you implying that users here today who are angry at the decision are to blame for developer inaction?
Thanks for clarifying.
Let’s say I buy a condenser mic, and really like it, and I need to power it and apply gain, so I buy a nice preamp with 48v phantom power and XLR input and output.
Then the standards change, and the new standard is a 4-wire plug, and the voltage specification also changes. The old mic won’t work with the new setup.
Does this render the gear useless?
Yes the gear no longer works and the company that made the mic wanted to hurt you, the enduser. They don’t care about your life because they’re mean. They owe you money now. They should reimburse you.
Ooooh I would really like to watch that AES convention! Half the room trying to strangle the other half with star quad cables, others throwing short snakes with those solid heavy xlr → jack adaptors on each end for maximum damage, others playing it safe clobbering stragglers with SM57s or 4038s if they can handle the weight. Name calling! Insults! All in the best audio quality possible! Now that would be something!
Joking aside, this speed differential between how material stuff (engineering principles) evolves and how software evolves is what makes it so difficult to stomach the volatile nature of software and computers. For me. And what’s also a bit ironic is the premise that information will live forever in a platonically ideal digital world, when matter crumbles. Yet, hieroglyphics are still there on some ancient crumbling wall, but I doubt I can easily read my childish thoughts from a 5,25 floppy anymore. I know, I should have copied them to 1.44, and then from drive to drive to drive.
Steinberg giving a roadmap for UAD and NI? How’s that going to work? Clearly these companies didn’t have a roadmap themselves, Steinberg is supposed to make one for them? How is it a company like Voxengo, as a one man operation, can rewrite all their plugins to VST3… but NI and UAD can’t?
And again, there is some user responsibility here. I never bought into UAD or NI hardware because they are bound to each other - I’m very weary of this business model because of companies like Apple. So I buy hardware for software that can work together, but not be dependent on each other. The UAD, NI, Apple trick is to sell people on things like “simpler integration”, “better performance”, etc.
So there are zero problems for me with this change, and for any NI user who can’t use their hardware… well it’s an expensive learning lesson for them. That’s all there is to it… Sorry, if I’m being a donkeys bum… but I try to stick to reality instead of idealism, because reality you can grab a hold of and make decisions… idealism depends on making changes, and people need to be in control of those changes - and that can be hit or miss.
What really would have been smart and capitalistic, would have been to make this VST2 kill decisions way way way sooner and more abruptly without warning, and then buy up all the plugin companies that faulter because of the sudden invalidity of their products and the work.cost it would take to rewrite to VST3. Definitely more of an Avid or Apple move… After my short story here, Steinberg don’t seem so evil after all.
It would have been a smart move actually, because then Kontakt and Halion could be merged and suddenly Steinberg/Yamaha would be reined the king of the hill of samplers.
anyways, still not sure what the big hoopla is about. People can keep Cubase 11 installed on their computer, and still use their VST2s.
New users who buy the wrong stuff… well… Audio Engineering School isn’t cheap either…
That’s an excellent example:
In those circumstance you’d think that any company removing/changing a good, working, widespread standard that everybody else continues to support just fine …well that might be a bit of a stupid business decision ?
This actually never happened. I have never come across any hardware gear that was rendered obsolete.
However, my expensive computer, an audio card and seemingly now, plugins have been, and will be trashed…
It’s not a big hoopla, it’s simply a response that Steinberg would’ve wanted. If this announcement came and everyone who may be affected shrugged and said “Oh well, lesson learnt - throw that piece of hardware away, never use that plugin”, what good is that?
We need these companies to switch across, so there needs to be a discussion made on it and a period of people being frustrated so they can vent and learn to move on - that’s just human emotions I’m afraid.
Thankfully we’ve mitigated human emotions with inventions like discussion.
This thread is in serious need of a laugh emoticon button rather than just a heart button.
Yeah, losing money, what a belly-laugh…
No, but the amount of pontificating, speculation, and assumptions that someone knows better than the Steinberg what to do with their own SDK is pure bullshit and yes to me amusing.
Well, there are a lot of people that are not amused, and they have a very good reason to not be.
If you want to be disrespectful to anyone who has a problem with being a victim to corporate decisions driving people to part from their hard earned cash, then I don’t really know what to say to you.
If you want to justify being a victim to your self and all other people who live by the rule of ‘Oh well, it’s just what it is’, then all power to you.
Best
Oh, please get over yourself and quit with the broken record saying the same thing over and over again.
No one is losing any money. Tools cost money and you use them up.
I am going in circles here and I seem to be replied to by people who cannot and will not accept reality, saying that buying a computer and plugins which work fine all of a sudden are obsolete, just because a company made a decision to milk you , is absolutely fine.
As I said, if you are happy to justify being a victim, all power to ya bud.
I said everything I had to say on this matter, I don’t want to be going around in circles, and forcing your opinion on to me by mocking me is not OK, alright mate?
Mattias, you’re not only a Steinberg apologist (be it paid or otherwise), you have a healthy ego too it seems.
And little understanding of what motivates others in this thread, or empathy for them.
Your little HAL avatar says alot about the way you want to be seen.
I have had my say about the soon-to-be demise of VST2.
On that note, why do a couple of people here seem to think people not conversant with development/coding etc would know all about the ‘timelines’ for VST2, 2.4, 3 etc?
This is not stuff I knew or cared about , until now it has been made ‘public’ by Steinberg’s
announcement. I just want my vst2 plugins to work for as long as possible, in the latest version of Cubase that I can run them in. Other DAW’s seem prepared to continue to support them for longer than Steinberg who invented the stuff.
So I am leaving this Forum now, thank you.
I’ve tried my best to stick to the actual topic and talk about that. I don’t recall having made this personal the way you just did. I’d put you on ignore but I guess you’re taking your ball and leaving, so, I suppose I won’t have to.
Hopefully you’ll find a new home where everyone agrees with your opinion.