Weird and "very" annoying automation accuracy/resolution issue

So this is something I noticed in pro 8.5 and my current version v11, but no doubt it has always been there.

I use a lot of volume automation, especially on vocals, and I have noticed that I can have two automation points both saying that they are at -25.6, but the are actually marginally different, see image to see what I mean.

Because of the vocal composition of my song this has definitely made a difference and caused me numerous and very significant problems.

If I select the automation point that looks wrong and manually set it to -25.6 in the menu bar, it does actually then line up correctly, i.e. it was wrong, it was not actually -25.6 “exactly” to begin with.

Why is this? What are any suggestions?

The only solution I can think of is manually update each and every automation point to make sure it is actually correct! :confused: This is because if I select all my base level -25.6 automation points it does not move them, it only works if selected individually (see second image).

N.b. I often copy and paste automation but this does not justify the problem.

Please help! :flushed:


Hi @A_D_S_R

Quickfix:

  1. Select all midi notes you want to change

  2. Change the value in the status bar

  3. Hit CTRL+Enter

This will assign that value to all the selected notes.

But why are the values off in the first place?
Are only the copies off but the source is right?

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Thanks @Croissant.

I should point out this is automation for audio tracks, should that make any difference?

Regarding your suggestion, I’ve tried that, but it doesn’t seem to work? When you have multiple points selected and set value to say -25.6, which will be a tiny/fractional move, it doesn’t seem to work. But it will move all the selected points if it’s a much bigger move, to say -12.0. (edit - see next post, an issue with this also!).

The only way I seem to be able to fix this is going and correcting each point manually :confused:

Why was it wrong to begin with? Not sure but I would have definitely typed in the automation point values, not drawn them by hand, as I definitely needed accuracy.

I did copy and paste a lot of the automation though, but that shouldn’t make any difference should it?

However, this project has been migrated from 8.5 to 11 with automation and everything else, but again it was doing something similar in 8.5, so assume it just carried over these inaccurate automation points.

Just FYI, regarding selecting multiple automation points, as mentioned I tried doing the following previously:

  1. Select multiple automation points.
  2. Set values to be completely different i.e. from -25.6 to -10.
  3. Set automation points back to -25.6

However that slight difference still remained.

Another weird thing I noticed doing this, when I set all the points to -10, it moved the inaccurate value relatively! I.e. it was still “off”. See image.

This explains why the above three steps don’t work.

What a nightmare :triumph::exploding_head:

No, doesn’t matter.

When you have multiple points selected and set value to say -25.6, which will be a tiny/fractional move, it doesn’t seem to work. But it will move all the selected points if it’s a much bigger move, to say -12.0.

Interesting.
Does it work when you move it to another floating point value like -10.6?
Try both „.“ and „,“ as decimal point. Maybe it has something to do with internationalization.

Another quick fix idea (if the delta should have anything to do with it):
Set it to -12, then to the actually desired value. Both times with CTRL + enter. CTRL must be pressed down until you release the enter key.

Ok, if you can’t reproduce the problem of values going off, it’s still a probability that your source was off already. Maybe your cursor was pointing on the status bar and you used the scrollwheel.

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@Croissant

I think you’ve cracked it! Thank you!!!

So I selected multiple points, set them to -10.12 (which incidentally gets rounded to -10.1 AND corrects the “off” automation point), then set them all to back to -25.6, and it looks correct! :raised_hands:

So, for now at least, it appears it was that delta(?), the decimal point that was key here!

Thanks again!! :slightly_smiling_face: You’ve potentially saved me a lot of angst.

Btw what is the purpose of using ctrl+enter? I didn’t follow that?

Ah! I spoke too soon!:sob: It works for some automation points not others, strange. Why would that be?

One, possibly pointless observation, if you have a value less than -10, you can have double digit resolution i.e. -8.88, but one you go over -10, it’s only one decimal place i.e. -10.6.

How much are these automation points off by?

Hi @MattiasNYC if you refer to my very first picture in my original post, it’s out by tiny tiny amounts, in fact both points say they are at -25.6, but yet if I manually set the value of the right side automation point in the info line to -25.6, it does move down and matches the left side automation point.

So it wasn’t “exactly” -25.6 to begin with.

Can you hear a difference?

To me this seems more like a nuisance because you know things look different. Even if they are different but have been “quantized” to a tenth of a dB there’s pretty much zero odds of you hearing that small a difference.

No offense, but I really think this may be just a waste of time unless you can hear the difference.

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CTRL + Enter applies the new value to all selected automation points.

Martin.Jirsak explains it quite nicely here:

So it’s crucial that you hold down ctrl while pushing enter.

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