What can be causing midi latency on only one project?

I seem to be spending more time struggling with CB than doing anything productive these days. Not good for a ‘professional’ program.
Today’s issue is midi latency, but its happening on only one project.
Ive recorded a song, used a few midi tracks and Halion, all went well, this was a few days ago, ive had a lot of crashes and have a few versions of the project which were made from auto saves i guess.
Everyone of them, other than the original project, is now giving me noticeable midi latency. Either trying to play with Halion thats already loaded, or creating a new instrument track. All play back fine of course.

I have no issues on any other project, be it old or new. I can open or create those while the faulty project it’s loaded (obviously only one activated) and all other projects work perfectly. Latency is showing as 3.22ms for audio, with no pops or clicks etc, not that this matters for midi.

Have you put any effect plug-ins in the master section or on the track you are getting latency on? These would cause latency. Do you have ASIO guard enabled? It should work ok but certain plugins don’t work well with it so have to be made an exemption.

Nothing has been changed since the first version as far as adding in tracks. I have run it with all effects and plugins off, but it made no difference at all. Added different VTS in, changed to a different midi keyboard. Nothing.
ASIO guard is on, it’s always on. Ive not made any changes to the system (every other project this fine), but i feel something has gotten corrupt somewhere, as all the versions I’m trying (other than the original) was crash recovery files.
The only other difference ive just remembered, was after the first version i added the B3-X VST instrument, This was a demo (and worked perfectly), but the demo ran out so i removed it. I had disabled it and converted to audio long before I removed it though.

Do you have something like Ozone in the master channel? Some plugins like that cause a lot of latency during recording.

Ah, now you mention it yes, i have Ozone 5 on the output…but its not that. I just tried taking it out and it made no difference.
I have found the cause though. I have Imager on the output buss as well, and thats the cause. Not sure when i put that on, but as soon as I turned it off the latency went back to not noticeable. Thanks for the tip about the master channel.
Not sure if this is a bug or by design.

It is neither a bug, nor a design issue. Some plugins just have a lot of processing going on, which causes latency. The DAW has to give them enough milliseconds to finish their task.

These plugins usually come later in the mixing or mastering stage, but if you put them in during recording, you may want to set them to bypass during the recording.

Ah, thats the thing, turning it off made no difference, i had to actually remove it. I know i said turn off above but going back to try it again i noticed turning it off made no difference. I tried this in two other projects with the same result. If its sitting there deactivated it still causes the lag.

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Yes as my first reply. Don’t put effects in the master section while recording midi or you will get latency.

You really should t be putting anything in the master until the track is complete and mixed. All the work should be in the mixing and then add master section processing. Of course if you then come to add something you think is missing you will have to unload the processing.

Its not something he I normally do, but i thought the track was finished, thats why the plugin’s are there. I had to go back and add a track, and thats when i noticed it.
But i cant understand why Ozone and Frequency work fine on or off, but Imager needs to be taken out completely. Why is it doing this if its turned off?

I can only guess here. So, don’t take that as a real answer. I ASSUME, that during bypass, the DAW (in this case Cubase) still performs the latency compensation for each plugin, so that when you bypass / reactivate it during playback of the song, the audio will not jump around weirdly or have broken noises. And some effects and plugins just need quite a large buffer to work with. In this case, Imager might work with bigger buffer sizes, introducing more ms of latency.

By turn off, I think he meant turn off, not just bypass.

To turn off a plugin, Alt+Click on the bypass.


On a side note, the above latency talk only matters if you are using the DAW for monitoring mix for the artists recording.

If you are using your AD/DA or a console for monitoring, then you could have 10 seconds of latency and it wouldn’t matter because the DAW is going to line everything up.

Unless you are dealing with MIDI, but that has more to do with your buffer settings, ie you’re probably setting a higher buffer to be running Ozone which is causing the VSTi delay…

…I think I have that right… I’ve only been editing stuff the past few months… can’t remember for sure

Ok thanks. Not sure if all that’s relevant other than the disable, which makes sense as I didn’t try that. I’ll give it a go later.
I made no adjustments for anything. Latency is 3.20ms, as I said in my first post, and Audio guard is always on. Having the other plugins in the output Chanel make no difference at all to the usable latency.
With the exact same settings I have no issues with anything. It’s purely that Imager is causing this issue. I’m not going to, to need to mess about with anything else.

maybe post a picture of your studio device setup

No point, because it’s working fine with any other project. There are no issues with my set up, and as we have deduced, its caused by Imager, not my system,

Just to finish the thread, i wasnt aware of the Alt+Click to bypass the plugin command, I tried that and it worked the same as removing it.
Thanks for all the help over the past day. Ive learnt a lot,

Read up on Constrain Delay Compensation as well as the threshold for it you can set in preferences. It will disable all plugins with a latency that exceeds the threshold you set. You activate it when you need to record, and then deactivate it when you want to return to your full mix sound.

Will do thanks. I must admit with all the daily issues i have with CB, latency and audio performances arent on the list so far.