What's wrong in the world of notation softwares?

Dorico
141

Exactly…

If you’re already famaliar with instrument tracks and MIDIloops in Cubase, you’ll already know the contents of this post. For those that are not familiar but interested…

Here’s a bit of info on CuBase MIDIloop files (for those who aren’t familiar with them).
These are designed to export complete ‘virtual instrument tracks’ from a CuBase Project. These also include the plug in setup information for the assigned VSTi, as well as anything in the mixer plugin slots, with all their settings intact. You can export them one track at a time, or you can select several instrument tracks and export them as a group into a single MIDIloop file.

Once you export instrument tracks as MIDIloops, they show up in the Steinberg Media Bay. You can click them and audition them without having to load them into a project, and they play back as they were built, using the right plugin and effects. You can import them back into any CuBase project and they load in all your plugins for the track set up and ready to go.

Since ExpressionMaps are similar between Dorico and Cubase (and some day might be nearly identical), it’s easy to share the technique interpretation between Dorico and CuBase as well. I don’t know what Dorcio’s percussion stave system is going to be like, but if it ends up being compatible with CuBase drum maps, then we’ve cut out many minutes, or even hours of manual labor after importing percussion staves.

I don’t know if these MIDIloop files keep up with any scoring relevant information at all (Cubase only or otherwise). I’ll need to run some tests and take a closer look to see if it keeps up with the technique lanes in the native Steinberg native format (and any other scoring technique data), or if it just keeps a pure rendered from of them (I.E. just the key-switch, raw velocity, CC, or Note Expression Data). Either way, if Dorico were to support importing/exporting these MIDIloop tracks it seems to me like it would be a very good short-term bridge between the two apps, that would save a significant amount of work (the stave/track will not necessarily ‘look’ the same after importing cross app, and your added articulation marks and other entered text/techniques might be missing, but it should ‘sound identical’.

To me, this wold mostly be of interest if I want to move a composition (or a stave from a composition) into CuBase. I no longer care so much about the score in this case. I just want it in my tracking DAW so I can power mix it with other things that Dorico can’t do, or otherwise have a 1 to 1 track import where I can easily layer up more virtual instruments and make ultra fine adjustments to the ‘audio stream’. To me, if I want to bring things from CuBase into Dorico, XML might make more sense if I’ve added any score specific information to the piece (articulation marks, etc.), or I might even import both XML and MIDIloops into different flows to mix/match and choose the best bars of each for further scoring refinements).

Contrast this to exporting a plain MIDI or an XML score file from Dorico and loading that into CuBase where:

  1. Take several minutes to load up the VSTi plugins and/or MIDI instruments.
  2. Make sure all that is routed to the right places.
  3. Rebuild the mixer effect chain.

For a decent sized score, it really can take a significant chunk of a day to pull in a raw MIDI file and pick up where you left off.

Once Dorico’s playback tab matures to provide the kind of precision editing and routing we get in our Tracking DAW (and I do believe that Dorico’s own Play Tab will evolve into something extremely versatile/powerful), it may even make more sense to just sync the two apps with something like ReWire or Steinberg’s own System Link protocols. For the ‘short term’, if it’s not too much trouble, MIDIloop support (at least export them), would be a BIG HELP.

Again, I’m just tossing out an idea. It might be way too complicated to build into Dorico the ability to export/import these MIDIloop files. If it takes a ton of time and effort, of course I’d rather see that momentum go into developing Dorico’s own play editor…all the ‘integration stuff’ can wait. In contrast, if it’s something that can be done with a reasonable amount of effort; it sure would be nice for people who want to do the bulk of their composing in Dorico, and port it over to the post production CuBendo environment in much later stages of a project.

Either way, as a user, I don’t expect to see too much focus on the integration for several releases yet (things may be going on under the hood that we won’t get access to from the GUI as users for several releases). Naturally there is plenty of work to be done to add SCORING and playback features and abilities to Dorico itself that is far more important at this time. There is also much that needs to be done internally with features and bugs in CuBase itself, so I’m not holding my breath and expecting anything more than minor improvements (in each release) to the existing XML and MIDI exporting abilities for a while yet. It makes sense to get the existing MIDI and XML export/import working extremely well before diving into even more formats to try to support (Those formats also benefit non Steinberg specific ports).

Still, I can’t help but ‘hope/wish’ it might be pretty easy to at least make Dorico able to ‘export’ a working MIDIloop file (or something similar) that can be imported into CuBendo within a year or so.

142

I was thinking the same thing. Dorico is obviously rendering things into a stream that is compatible with MIDI and some subset of the VST protocol. Does it render in ‘real time’, or does it act kind of like Finale and re-render the score after hitting play (if anything had changed that requires a re-render)? Or, does it keep the play-back events somewhat separate from the display notation and spacing elements? The playback editor kind of leads us to believe that there is at least some degree of independent control over what is displayed and what is ‘played back’.

Obviously at some point, the Score gets translated and sent out as VST/MIDI. Steinberg also controls the VST protocol, so there’s no reason they can’t find some ways (perhaps in the more distant future) to pack other types of meta-data into the stream (even purely informational things that don’t get streamed on to plugins as ‘playable’ events, and are simply ignored by DAWs that don’t know what to do with them).

143

I’ve been working with MPP-2 and 3, Finale from 1998 until 2012 and then with Notion (Presonus). MPP was a DOS-program that didn’t evolve anymore. Much later the same composer and programmers built Notion (Win and Mac). Every program had its advantages and shortcomings. Notion is quite intuitive and pretty ease to learn and recently it has complete integration within the Studio one DAW. Very interesting! But… as to engraving and printing, it was (is) rather limited. The early versions of Finale had some possibility to correct the printing pages (e.g. easy page turns), but they left it out some years ago. As far as I can judge now, Dorico is by far the most complete program on the market. Undoubtedly there are some minuses, but it is still developing and very fast! :+1:

144

In addition to pencil and paper, also I used Music Printer Plus (1988) (and all other notation programs of early days like Deluxe Music Construction Set [1986] and Dr. T’s Copyist [1986] for Amiga, and of course Finale since it was released, and Sibelius). What I did not know is that Dr. Jack Jarrett was behind Music Printer Plus. Thanks for this piece of information, Jos.

Today Dorico is the music writing tool of my choice. Happily, as Jos says, “developing very fast”. Dorico is a dream come true, even though also THIS dream can become better.

Wikipedia about Music Printer Plus: “Music Printer Plus was developed by Dr. Jack Jarrett. It grew out of earlier work on a piece of software called Music Printer that ran on IBM PC and compatibles computers. It was first released in 1988 and was discontinued in 1995. Although a Windows version was planned, one was not developed. Plans for the Windows version evolved into Dr. Jarrett’s current project Notion. MusicPrinter Plus contained some advanced mechanisms for its day, including playback of articulations and synchronization to SMPTE and other time code.”

Wikipedia about Deluxe Music Construction Set: “Deluxe Music Construction Set (DMCS) is a 1986 music composition, notation and playback program for the Amiga[1] and Macintosh. The program was originally released as Will Harvey’s Music Construction Set for the Apple II and other computers, but was redesigned (and the Will Harvey name dropped) for the deluxe version. DMCS was created by Geoff Brown and published by Electronic Arts (EA). Ariolasoft published the program in Europe under license from EA.”

Interesting Dr. T’s Copyist review (1990): Dr.T's Copyist (SOS May 90)

145

I, as an extremely low-income, disabled, classical composer for ostly piano-solo. I had 3 “near-dead” health deteriorations during the SARS2-peak; however, only one of the SARS2’s (wildtype 02 March 2022) but I was inadavertedly, due to poor pharmacological care management, a rogue prescriber, overly fearful of BZDs despite making it eventually necessary to rely on them for any remaining (ie: not ‘untrained out of me’ nor 'lucky brain damage (which happened in my Anterior Hypothalamus to Periaquaductal Grey Area “rage circuit” which at least gave me less fear interacting with others (I have a conjunctive neurodevelopmental disorder of ASD w/profound social deficit & profound intellectual ‘talent’…which means nothing if people and you just can’t form rapport 8 of 10 times.) But this phenotype disorder also carried severe catatonia with minute-to-minute hyperthermically-deduced malignant hyperarousal and many embarrassing “lower primate” displays of the voice and contortions. Glad that burned out of my Lateral Septal inputs con Ventral Prosubiculum allowing reteaching some social abilities.

So I had literal dementia from mid March 2020 to 30 August 2021, no memories in there except random misery in bed and fear. So my dog ate somehow one or two eliscensers - whatever on I’m on now, I was put through some traumatic experiences, mean as ice, due to German-AtlanticFacade (I am from a part of the USA influxed to a port city on East Coast with England_Wiltshire, Ireland_Armagh (that before coming to USA in 1790 were permitted automonous taxation of local Irish to the harbor, as my ancestors were a mix of an influx, in 1600 of Breton-Loire French, but before that, the Anjou’s promoted Carazeney (North Spain) family to the area as far as 600 AD. Totally different cultureal norms. I believe the arguments were interesting for the Germans and myself to learn what is valued (craftstmanship vs. loyalty, Germany is clearly richer than the USA I know as well - these programs cost me a full year eacah to afford.

So can some Steinbergian tell me why after all the correct set up one computer ‘ago’ now is demanding NEW CODES which I know you Germans hate giving out. I hate living in West MI b/c theres no Italians or Irish/English/French which I am used to (nor Jews). Just Dutch Calvinists who think I am from Afghanistan apparantly (Okayyyy>>>I like Afghanistan’s people but I don’t look like the slurred term thrown at me b/c I had sat in the sun for a few hours, have black hair, hazel big eyes, and no chin - so Iberian, duh. Plus skin is slightly ligter than Afghans generally (Fitz Type IV- olive untanned, dark brown if tan).

PM Me I still need Americans With Disabilities merited help due to the seizures and anxiety. That’s all on my books - certified nut, certified shaker& starer, certified “weird person who thinks backwards////interject//// “My IQ fluid is still 164 you know…”.” but you know brain damage makes you intellectually useless especially with Autistic ADHD Hyperkinesis.

Gracias Muy Sinceremente Allemanillanis,

Evan Kearney (O’Caernaigh (1700-now Ireland ‘fake Irish’) > (Courdnouville/Cerny from EBrittany y Pays d’Loire sensu lato 1550-1700 SW,NW Franch) > (Guerney/Carazini/Caeirnai from 600-1000 & 1400-1700 Galicia-and assorted provences in Spain and Portugal’s NE near Extremadura and other windmill fighters in Salamanca.)

146

If you’re using Dorico 3.5 or earlier, you can request a new activation code to reactivate your software here:

If you’re using Dorico 4, you can simply install on your new computer and sign in to Steinberg Activation Manager with your Steinberg ID, which will provide you with access to your licensed software.

147

Apparantly I am not, since during the period in which SARS gave me dementia for two years (source of my Anti-Germanic sentiment being toxically posted mea culpa…)“pouting man/me”: :pouting_man:t4:=oh god what have I written…

In addition I had two laptops break in 3 months consequent to my “return to cognitive functioning” but no return was valid as I had still not enough physical clearance to legally drive due to the seizures and lingering dementia then.

Now I am 80% or so of my normal ‘whacky’ self, but I feel like - as I had mentioned, I am on Pensioners/Disability as my only income and spent money for Cubase 6 (upgraded per beta properly on computer 0 we’ll call it) Artist Series, I also purchased the trial’s license for Halion Sonic 3 on computer 1 (the 1st of the broken laptops), which was so much fun to have back in the day as a composer. So naturally I bought the Dorico 3.5 Elementals last year (or two or three years ago I don’t recall b/c no memories for 2 years essentially - freaky stuff). I just stupidly asssumed it was eligeable for updgrade to Dorico 4 Elementals probably a year after that offer for like 15 dollars usd expired. Oh well, it still looks to cost only 31 dollars usd but my Mastercard won’t pay for it since its international or some additional bump in my road up and down the… pre-Alps of Bavaria!

So I have the same machine (computer physical - laptop 2 since its a wipe and reinstall - which seems to have royally messed up everything again (although I had to buy 2 external hard drives because the world does things differently now it appears - why would a tier 2, so not gaming pc nor fancy-dancy laptop for C-Suite women and men, but an intel quad i3 or i5 - its able to process latency to 6.7 ms with the Presonus Audiobox 196 I externally closed-loop the datum per quantum of processing through since the sound card in house is indeed poor (not terrible though). But that works fine too!

Its the darned elicenser products.

  1. Halion Sonic 3x.y.z
  2. Cubase Artist 6.5
  3. Elements of Dorico - 3.5
  4. mp3 converter standard thing everyone buys

I have bothered your management relentlessly over the past two years with repetitive nonsenical discourse about the Rhine River and my surname’s Galician/Salamancan origin for some odd reason (looked through old emails- had to take an anxioltyic tablet prescribed to me in order to get it done and write this (heart pounding slightly less at least and no seizures).

I feel like someone going bankrupt about to loose 1000 bucks of products I would (calculated it out assuming inflation goes down to 6% by next year and knowing that SSDI is inflation adjusted to the tee) not be able to save up for that in over 12 years. I may not be alive by then with my chronic conditions! Please direct me to (or please Lord just maybe get someone to push some buttons to throw me new 25 digit codes so it doesn’t think these things are in la la land) a solution. I am able to let a tech of yours for a small cost (like less than 60 USD to her) even remotely access the computer and move the files or whatever if that’s an option.

Thanks for cooking up some solutions.
E O’Caernaigh