I’m sorry, I’m not going to watch your 8 minute video. If you want further help, your best bet is to describe your issue in a sentence or two and share your Dorico file here.
i haven’t noticed that sharing Dorico files is commonly practiced here. it’s a bit of an odd request, isn’t it?
based on your unwillingness to assist, and insistence that i describe complex issues in impossibly short phrases – what would you do with forum member files? look at them for 4 seconds? 4 minutes?
what i’d like is a shared sense of teamwork – of helping each other create beautiful scores quickly, so that we can concentrate on music making and enjoyment, for example.
Here is a solutions video that presents a workaround for the glitchy behavior Dorico is currently exhibiting regarding instructional text placement:
it’s 4 minutes and 41 seconds…so watch only if you’re interested in the solution I was able to find…
maybe could you make a personal note regarding our communication on this forum: i am on the side of efficiency, joy, and the users. i have taught thousands of tech students and have written tens of thousands of pages of tech documentation – i am an end user advocate – staunchly – and will not stop seeking to improve the tools we use.
i’ve migrated to software development and am maintaining the principles of end-user advocacy. a “good” procedure will be what an end user naturally does or would do – to get to a specific, desired, outcome.
it is not “natural” or “intuitive” to have stuff flying off the screen – if we’re placing text onto a musical score – or if we’re using software that allows us to position furniture in interior design – if the couch you just “placed” flies above the ceiling – that is an issue w the software – not with the users: ok?
our helpfulness here is measured by the speed in which the issue mentioned can be resolved by the person experiencing the issue. it’s not about instructing character – ok?
please keep your responses to me about procedures in Dorico – procedures that exist – or procedures that could exist that would make Dorico better – ok? can we agree on that?
Perhaps, wrapped up in your own challenges, you haven’t read enough other users’ posts.
The most knowledgeable users here, the ones most folks rely on to help them with their challenges, read virtually every post. They do not need to self-promote by rehashing their credentials or try to commandeer either Dorico development or forum policy. In short, they are other-focused. They are helpful.
Sharing Dorico files so that others can help solve issues is very common here. It’s one of the steps recommended by the dev team in the post I linked to above (“Post a project, not a picture”).
look, there really are a few people i would like to be able to block on this forum. my “self promotion” is only stated, to somehow tell the more aggressive “Dorico defenders” to just back off and join me in “user focus.” there were some issues where towards the end of a 20-minute video i made & i found some workarounds and solutions – then i get told that is what a few people suggested days later. they did not provide solutions – they criticized and derailed and pointed me to irrelevant or basic sections of the manual – and i needed to meet a deadline.
since your response does not get me closer to better & faster procedures using Dorico, i wish i would not have read it.
in the near future, i am going to be helping some people who don’t speak English natively move over to Dorico – if they try to post something here and get abrasive read the manual responses – they will shy away and feel terrible. i’m trying to prevent that, and i would also make a recommended “block list,” if that feature were available here in this forum.
Yes, my recommendations will be helpful to the Dorico team. I’m actually a professional, so I am not “comandeering Dorico development,” and I am certainly not "comandeering forum policy.” I want some of the more unfocused posters here, who seem to be more interested in monitoring behavior than sharing procedures – to leave me alone – I really do.
I know that “repetition is the mother of learning,” for example. Some forum members literally searched through release notes on Dorico bugs to tell me that my post was redundant. That is absurd behavior policing that reduces the amount of joy here at this forum.
Do we tell ourselves: well, I’ve already played the A major scale, I guess I never need to play A major again? No.
I’d like to connect with the Dorico users who have a similar heart. That repetition is OK, that some things are quite confusing in Dorico – that some things don’t work – and that we could share our experiences to make the procedures and our outcomes, better.
I don’t want to connect with the Dorico users who seem to be more interested in attitude than procedures…really…
you weren’t willing to look through a 20-min video with solutions found towards the end. you were not willing to scroll through an 8-min video. you were also unwilling to look through a 4-min video. videos can also be scrolled and set to double speed…
if you wouldn’t even spend a few minutes looking through a video – how much time would you spend opening and looking through a project – in which clear Dorico bugs look to have been found?
i did not need to post the project for helpful people to share helpful procedures, which some forum members did.
through a combo of guessing on my own - and some brilliant sharing: for example “CMD select first lyric, CMD select last lyric in the line, then CMD+Shift+A,” was a brilliant help that saved me several hours of manual editing.
There would have been no benefit from me posting my project, and I may do so in the future, but it was not something I was comfortable with – and it certainly would not have speeded up the process of helping me find the procedures and workarounds i needed to get my project to completion.
it is now close to completion but not yet entirely ready to be published.
@Dainis_Michel if you really feel you don’t want to see Aaron’s posts anymore, then the forum has an option to ignore someone temporarily or even permanently.
Him being one of the most helpful and expert people here, you’ll miss a lot.
Indeed, he is.
Jesper
yes, currently, what would seem to be a good way for me to proceed, then, would be to “ignore” this group:
a video can be scrolled. an experienced user could scroll a video back and forth and likely gain a good impression of what’s up in a few seconds.
the thing is: if i set my profile to “ignore” specific profiles, do they still see my posts? but then, i would have “ignored” them – and if they post “the exact solution,” then i would not see it? that, of course, would be frustrating for everyone – because the rest of the forum would be like: the answer is right there – and i would have set my profile to “ignore” that member’s profile. if me setting my profile to “ignore” specific profiles – also prevents them from seeing my comments and posts, then that might be a good way to move forward.
Pjotr, knowledgeable people sometimes allow themselves to control or berate – it’s just not something I want to subject myself to. Also, again, I will be helping people who do not speak English natively make the transition from Finale to Dorico. These are not people who would benefit from being berated.
It’s clear that some procedures are described very well in the manual – sometimes people miss stuff – maybe they searched differently. Maybe they are more auditory learners – and seeing words on the screen doesn’t work for them as well as hearing a procedure. Or the screen causes them to go into a kind of non-absorbent hypnosis. I just don’t like anti-repetition berating. It doesn’t help.
i would already like certain procedures in Dorico to be improved. in general, i would be paid to provide my “fresh eyes” to this software – except that i am not here hired – i am a customer & composer, not hired to make the user experience of this software better or to write documentation. it looks like that skill set has irritated some people.
at any rate, this thread shows a bug that the development team may wish to pay some attention to in the future. also, in this thread, you can find workarounds for Dorico users who wind up experiencing the same bug.
No, if you ignore someone, they’ll be kept hidden from you alone, not for anyone else. And others, not ignoring you explicitly in turn, will still see your posts. Indeed, if their post might contain a solution, you won’t see it. I assure you that that group of 7 you consider ignoring collectively, may be responsible for most solutions on this forum.
Edit to add: if you ignore someone, they don’t get notified AFAIK. No one will know, let alone care…
Please do not consider this a berating (just a gentle comment about the forum etiquette).
Many users (like you) are working in a foreign language. Nuance and subtlety is often lost in translation, so comments may be perceived as harsh where that was not the intention.
We are all “customers and composers/arrangers/engravers” (apart from the members of the Dorico team, who can be identified by the Steinberg logo on their avatar).
We are all busy professionals (not necessarily in the sense that we are always paid, but that we take this seriously).
We all have some specialist expertise (Many users are software engineers. Many others have been using tools like Finale and Sibelius for decades. And others are sound engineers/music producers with deep skills in DAWs and audio). I doubt any is expert in all things.
We do recognise that people learn in different ways. But also recognise that helpers teach in different ways too.
However, we are all busy people and “time poor”. So interacting on the forum needs to be efficient for everyone.
Experience here has shown that most user difficulties can be resolved quickly by uploading an example of the problem as a Dorico file (If copyright is a concern, cut it down to a few bars long, randomise note using one of the transform tools, delete all irrelevant players).
The sole arbiters of BUGS are the Dorico team. There are doubtless many, but most often an unexpected behaviour is due to the user misunderstanding the current capabilities/limitations of the software.
Understand how to achieve your goal is where the forum users can help you. And I have been helped by many.
that’s not what i asked. i asked if i set my profile to ignore a specific profile – will that profile be able to see and respond to my posts?
if that is the case, then i could ask about a specific topic, and an “ignored” profile could post the exact solution, but i would be unable to see the solution. others would be able to see “so-n-so answered your question,” but i would not be able to see the solution.
i really don’t like the responses here that aren’t Dorico procedures…i care enough to have the intention to make things better as i go…a lot of times, software companies hire “fresh eyes” to make their software more user friendly for new users.
this topic reveals a Dorico bug. that does not mean we should have to read so many invasive and irrelevant comments.
my first two degrees are a double degree in English Lit and Rhetoric. I was born and raised in the USA.
to clarify: i will be HELPING non-native speakers migrate to Dorico, and if this forum is “like this,” then I will need to warn them about the community dynamic, which i will do.
Exactly.
ok that’s too bad. it does not make it possible for me to run away from people/profiles that seem to be taking an issue with me…
Okay, I watched your video.
Nothing you describe in your video is a bug, nor would I call it “glitchy”, since it works predictably and as designed – although I understand that it looks odd and can be tricky to work with.
I can’t tell exactly why Dorico positions that text block so high up, although I gave some possible reasons in my response above. I would need to see your project file, or at least the first page of it, in order to see exactly what’s going on.
It is by design that you can’t edit the text in Engrave mode. That mode is only for changing the visual appearance of your score.
It is also by design that you can’t move the text block lower in Write mode. As you found, if you move the block to a different rhythmic position, it moves lower; this is because it’s no longer repositioning itself to avoid whatever else is at its original position. As I noted in my post above, you could also select it and turn off the Avoid Collisions property, and then it will appear lower down on the score. I think if you also used Page view in Write mode, instead of Galley view, you’d be able to see the text block on the page just as it appears in Engrave mode.
When you move the block in Write mode, it changes the display of the following bars because you have attached it to a different rhythmic position, and that has implications for how Dorico calculates spacing around it. Again, this is not a bug.
After you fix the typo in the text, I would generally recommend moving it back (in Write mode) to its original rhythmic position – even if this means that it is repositioned too high in Galley view – and then adjusting the visual positioning in Engrave mode.
which means community members should be quick to share procedures, appropriate sections of the manual, and tutorial videos – not character evaluations.
i’m cool w calling the bugs i find, “bugs.” i’m also completely fine w being wrong.
Hi Dainis,
another user here. I too recommend to post a part of your project (projectxyz.dorico).
You will be amazed, how fast your issue will be resolved. I speak from own experience.
They are quick to share suggestions. You are the one who claimed (mistakenly in my opinion) character evaluations because you did not like those responses, which were mostly seeking clarification.
Except the rest of us are not “cool” with that. It is disrespectful.
The vast majority of words on this thread (mostly from the OP) are completely unnecessary and a waste of many professionals’ time.
Ask a question. If you don’t get a clear answer, ask it a different way. If you don’t get the answer you like, don’t write a novel about it.