… as the most realistic (especially not squeaky etc strings!) VST Library for classical (symphonic, concerto, chamber etc), please:
I guess this also asks: which has the most reliable integration with Dorico (Pro 6) on macOS 15.4).
I don’t want to have to add Kontakt etc.
And/or maybe folks here know of others not in my ‘top three’…?
I’m a big Berlin and Vienna fan, mostly because I feel they’re more concert hall focused. If you’re not aware, Steinberg’s Iconica package uses Berlin samples. Berlin is far more comprehensive, but Iconica can be a “budget” Berlin.
In general, the difference with ensemble offerings is they lack granularity. You might get a whole wind section, or perhaps the clarinet is 2 or 3 clarinets rather than solo. With the regular Synchron you get much more granularity, and perhaps more samples/articulations, you’d have to dig into the documentation to know the precise differences.
If I had to choose one, I’d go with Berlin. This is, of course, very subjective. I like Berlin’s brass much better than Vienna. Of course I prefer Vienna’s winds.
It’s in our nature to never be satisfied, and there is no perfect sample library. Even if you owned all of them, you’d still find limitations. Most importantly, if you can, wait for sales.
I second the sale advice. I have yet to pay full price for a Spitfire library and have been able to obtain quite a few that I would not normally buy at regular price. Sales do work. They bring in new customers that are often lifers.
Scott,
Many, many thanks for your helpful post!
which is important to me; thanks, Yes.
Yes; I listened to this demo and - honestly - did find exactly that synthetic string sound which I wish to avoid, alas 
.
Maybe the full package is more authentic?
How much better is Synchron than the old (my collection goes back to 2011, 2013 with Sibelius!) original VSL libraries, would you say, please?
Which one of their range?
And presumably I’d use these?
But do the Orchestral Tools as sold for Dorico work without Kontakt or SINE (etc)… I prefer to keep things simple 
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Sure. I would be content with… just being content!
Thanks again!
Understood. Thanks, Bill. These things are expensive, aren’t they!
Then I’d heartily recommend looking into NotePerformer. NotePerformer is by far the best bargain in sound libraries. What NP does is add some very nice humanization. You can have the best samples there are, but with MIDI it sounds like robots playing real instruments. NP comes with its own sounds, which are quite decent for getting the idea across. I’ve said that NP sounds like humans playing artificial instruments, which actually sounds better than MIDI with great sample, imo.
However, in the past couple of versions, NP has added NotePerformer Playback Engines (NPPEs) which allow you to use any library with NP. Check out the NP YouTube channel for some demos. The NPPEs basically replace a library’s normal engine.
I’m almost all NP these days. I use Synchron Prime, Iconica, and HOOPUS. With the new version that just came out, I’ll need to look into using my Berlin and old VI libraries with it.
Without NP, you’ll need an expression map for whichever libraries you’re using. Some library vendors make some for their products, or you might find some that other’s have made.
When it comes to different packages, you’ll have to look at the contents and see what has been left out. Instruments, mic placements, articulations will all be pared down in the cheaper versions. What you don’t need or can live without is up to you.
With Berlin you don’t need to buy everything all at once. You can buy piecemeal over time or as needs dictate. For example, here are the individual strings. I’ve never checked to see if there’s an overall discount buying the full package.
With Vienna, the main difference between Synchron and Studio (the new name for VI) are the engines. Synchron is simpler to use while Studio gives total control. But at this point, we’re talking about using keyswitches and tons of CC messages. That approach is better served with DAW rather than a notation app.
Scott,
Thanks!
Yes, I’ve used it from version 3, I think. On by default. And now NP 5 seems like another big step forward, which means we can ‘bypass’ Playback Engines - if I understand it aright… haven’t really looked closely yet.
My choice seems to be between Synchron Prime and Smart so far. Their demos are pretty impressive, and do seem a significant step up from ‘Studio’.
Thanks for the highlight. I’ve always found the strings the least acceptable; and I do write string 4tets.
Not the libraries themselves?
I still have all mine. But assume I can no longer use them in Dorico?
That was an example, you can buy the any of the other sections that way as well.
My understanding is that Synchron uses much of the same recordings as Studio. They’ve done some new recordings for Synchron, but I’ve not kept up with how much in Synchron is unique.
You can use the old Studio libraries with Dorico, just as you can use any VST as long as you have an expression map. I purchased a 3rd party map many years ago, but never liked the results, certainly not compared to NP. With NP 5, hopefully someone will create an NPPE for Studio.
One flaw with Synchron Prime is there are no solo strings, so it’s not suitable for string quartets. You can buy Synchron solo violin and solo cello on their own. Many vendors don’t offer a solo viola, and unfortunately Vienna is one of them.
Scott,
== Synchron ==
Understood. I’ll look into that; thanks.
Yes; that would get around that. But I think first I’d look into the new architecture of NP5.
Yes; that is one real disadvantage.
What would your recommendation be specifically for solo strings, Scott?
I’ve always found VSL easy and efficient to work with. They seem to have expanded quite a bit over the years.
The labor involved in recording and producing hundreds of gigabytes of samples is tremendous. It’s a miracle that anyone even bothers to go through with it.
Yes!
I always marvel whenever I see videos of such recording sessions. The repetition alone…
I’ll throw you a curved ball… Have a look at Xsample.
I always liked the realism of their old (and no longer available) XCE Chamber Ensemble sounds and the wide range of contemporary playing techniques.
But their latest offerings include solo strings and also include Dorico expression maps!
(sorry - they run on Kontakt- full version)
Thanks, @Janus.
Yes, I used to use that with Sibelius.
That video you linked to, thanks, was dated 2016; so they must have had some success.
and the wide range of contemporary playing techniques.
A bonus.
If I remember correctly, I also installed that then. Nothing against it. Just want to avoid too many moveable parts.
Everything in Synchron is unique - with the exception of one library, the Great Rieger organ, which was originally released as the Vienna Konzerthaus organ. Aside from this, none of the Synchron libraries use any samples at all from any of the Studio libraries (which are based on VSL’s old VI series). Every last one of the Synchron libraries are new recordings completely different from the older VSL stuff (with the sole exception of the organ).
Much better I feel, but that can be a matter of taste. The Synchron libraries are newly recorded in Synchron Stage Vienna, a big ambient hall. Not as big as some other halls, but still fairly big. The original VSL libraries are still available as the “Studio” series, ported to the Synchron player. The Studio libraries are recorded in a small room (mostly their old “Silent Stage”) so you have to “simulate” the big room with reverb, although most of them come with a Synchron Stage simulation reverb that let you simulate Synchron Stage to use them alongside the ambient Synchron libraries. But I never feel that simulating a big room for an instrument recorded in a small room gives the same realistic result that recording in a big room to begin with gives you.
The Studio libraries give you more control of the size of the room and positioning, but what I feel is much less realism. Conversely, the Synchron libraries are much more realistic but give you less control (ex. if you want them to sound like they were recorded in a small room, you can’t do that as successfully).
I was never very interested in VSL at all (aside from the woodwinds) thinking it really sounded fake, until the Synchron series changed my mind completely. I did get more a few more studio libraries since, mostly for random articulations that are not present in the Synchron versions.
Oh wow, that must be new. I’ve been checking back on the Xsample site every few months to see if they had made Dorico expression maps yet. I emailed the developer almost two years ago to ask them but never got a response. I hadn’t bought them because they hadn’t made maps. This makes them much more attractive as options. Thanks for the heads-up on that, Janus!
Thank you!
That’s really good to know.
Again @mducharme that’s very informative and encouraging.
Have set things in motion 
.
I use the Synchron Prime library and value the opportunity to use it with NotePerformer’s NPPE. I don’t believe the Smart Orchestra has a ready-made NPPE although NP5 now apparently allows you to create your own NPPE and VSL’s Dorico Wizard can help you to create an expression map. I am not familiar with VSL’s Smart Orchestra but a quick review of their website leaves me wondering how well it would work with a notation program since the keyboard seems to be divided between an ensemble section in the lower octaves and a solo section in the higher octaves. Perhaps another user who has used the Smart Orchestra with Dorico can comment. In any event, I believe VSL still allows you to try out a library and return it for a refund within a reasonable time if it doesn’t work out as planned (worth checking this out, though!). Good luck with whatever new library you choose!
I wouldn’t bother with Smart Orchestra if not working in a DAW. it is a sketching tool.