why doesn't midi just use VST plugin inserts??

I’m doing my best to make Cubase 7 my official sequencer using Halion 4.

Does anyone actually use the midi inserts? Why wouldn’t they just make them VST plugin inserts instead of having to wire it up to a whole other channel? So much unnecessary mucking around! But I guess cubase is known for this :frowning:

Because MIDI inserts are manipulating MIDI data!

VST inserts are manipulating audio data/signals, but have nothing to do with MIDI data.

This is the reason the MIDI inserts come first. After that the device that is steered with MIDI data ( in your case Halion 4), and the audio output of that device go to the VST plugins…

And yes - I use MIDI inserts. Arpache is most used, but there are several very useful inserts to play around with. I also use more exotic arpeggiators (like Xfer’s Cthulu or Kirnu), but those have a more complicated setup.

I do not know what you mean by “wiring up on a whole other channel”. If you use a simple instrument track, all inserts (MIDI and VST) are on that track. If you use Halion 4 as multi-timbral and multi-output VST instrument you have to set it up in the VST instrument rack, and use the preferred number of MIDI tracks. There is no way around that.

Do not forget you can put all those MIDI tracks in one folder to keep things organized…

Anyway - here’s your answer.

you forget about minor things like outboard midi gear :astonished: all these midi modifiers and inserts are certainly used and aid you to created your sound before you even record ,you don’t have to record , you don’t even have the outboard gear running into Cubase (audio side ) ,just connect your midi and use your instruments and inserts as you please ,no restrictions …these inserts have always been a great feature of the older cubases and are very much of my sound design and work flow

Sure you are right filterfreak, but in this case the poster asked about Halion 4, so (to keep things simple) I only gave the answer that was fitting for a soft synth… :wink:

oh yes sorry , pardon me , bit early in the morning I should of read the thread properly , my apologises :wink:

Yes this is what I’m referring to, this whole having to setup separate output tracks then having to search around and find them on other output channels to mix… its just too tedious and slows the work flow.

Yes I can definitely see the benefit of midi inserts and I understand they are a separate thing altogether.

So I guess technical implications aside, this is just on my wish list!

With my midi track count these midi intensive projects can quickly become a mess of folders. With just the sheer size of Halion, having a separate instance on every track is just not an option, unlike FL studio which has a very light sampler (and suited me fine), you can have dozens of instances and it wont affect the cpu. I think this is one of the reasons why FL is regarded as one of the greats for midi workflow. I think Cubase/Halion kicks over FL by far but only once you have setup your templates.

This is just a bit of a work flow killer for me as I mix as I go and use dozens of midi tracks, but if you guys say there is no way around this, then I’m just going to have to live with it. Thanks!

Well Halion 4 is never meant to be a “light” sample player. If you want to use a “heavyweight” be prepared to use it in a multi-timbral/multi-output configuration to save CPU power. There is indeed no other option.

If you want a more “light-weight” sample player you can take a look at (free) Shortcircuit ( http://www.vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php ) or sfz player ( http://www.cakewalk.com/Download/sfz.aspx ). Those players do not put a heavy strain (as far as I know) on your CPU, so you can use multiple instances in simple instrument tracks. They are obvious more limited than Halion 4 of course.

In practice I use a few light-weight synths (like Rapture, ZTA2+, Synth1, FM8 etc.) in combination with a more powerfull synth (like Omnisphere), so I only have a few “nested” MIDI/IO channels and my projects are easily manageable.

Yeah awesome thanks JClosed I have Shortcircuit but will try out sfz!

I create and finalize my own samples in cubase before dropping them into the sampler. Pretty simple really, all I use it for is a player. I also slice things and drop them in to use on one midi channel.

Do you know if these samplers can do this as well?

Well - I’m not sure, because I only use them occasionally. I think Shortcircuit is capable of doing that, but I cannot say that at this moment, because I am not behind my main computer.

If you want to do something with slicing it seems to me TX16Wx ( http://www.tx16wx.com/ ) is capable of doing this. It has a wave editor and beat slicer with automatic keyboard layout. This is also a free sample player. There is however a (fairly cheap) pro version available.

Well - you can always try if it works for you. After all - you can’t go very wrong with the price of free… :slight_smile:

Actually, you don’t save any CPU power by using samplers in a multi-timbral/multi-output configuration. You will use the same amount of CPU power if you run multiple instances of Halion 4 as individual instrument tracks instead. Don’t believe me? Try it and see if there’s any difference.

Interesting, I might do a bit of a shoot out and see which is the lightest.

Thanks for all the links JClosed!