I think it’s a great piece of hardware to add to a fader surface controller. It works under Eucon protocol and I wonder if Nuendo will work with it.
I don’t see why it should not.
I really feel that Steinberg/Yamaha should have addressed that market themselves.
Nuendo and Cubase users could be a good piece of the S3/Dock market.
Amen!! Now that Avid has cannibalized and all but destroyed the Eucon protocol for non-PT users, we are desperate for a $5k “Artist Series Level” version of Nuage hardware! With budgets being what they are now, it’s almost impossible to justify the expense of Nuage at the top of the line. But a “Nucleus” priced level of the controller with 8 - 16 faders all included would fly off of the shelves!!
Perhaps we should start a petition to see if that will pursuade SB to develop hardware for the rest of us. In fact, I’m going right over to features and requests to get that started!
Totally agree with that one, have been waiting, seems obvious: a Nuage for the project studio: 16 faders, transport, smart channel etc. Have been sitting on a a pair of MCUs for ages, but there is no alt product out there really; the SSL Nucleus has far too much not required (mic pres, monitoring etc - that’s likely already in place in the project studio); the Avid surfaces are dodgy & really only have the best context in PT. i.e. need a damn good surface for remote controlling all the essential internal sw features of the Nuendo /Cubase/Wavelab. Oh, while we’re at it - dump EuCon, way too problematic. USB3 would nail it. Throw in a few templates for Logic, Live, DP etc. Waiting for that one … indeed would fly off the shelf onto my desk.
The problem isn’t doing what you want, the problem is the price of the Nuage controllers that are already out.
Look; you’ve got a fader unit with 16 faders, 2 pots per channel, and buttons, and then a “center” unit that does transport and some other stuff. The two will put in the $24k range I think. Not a bad deal considering what it does… maybe.
Now ask for 16 faders… do you want pots with that? Probably. Say 1 pot per channel to save money. Then what?.. Transport and smart channel? Ok, that’s on the center section, partially, right? So you’re kind of creating a mash-up between the two. Say 70% of the fader unit and 30% of the center. That’s 100% of one. Or $12,000!
Basically, any way you slice it it’s going to be incredibly difficult for Steinberg to create anything other than something that equals the Avid s3 and is priced similarly. Even then it’s so cheap compared to a Nuage fader unit that it might be a problem. In other words it’ll take away sales from the current units. The thing you want can’t be as cheap as you want because the current Nuage gear is too expensive. The gap would be too great.
I just don’t see it happening.
What a shame that we lost this line of options!
I totally disagree!
Toyota sales didn’t drop one bit when they started the Lexus line! An even closer analogy would be $500 Cubase selling alongside $1700 Nuendo!! Steinberg could absolutely deliver an “S3” or “Nucleus” level unit. SSL is selling Duality at $100k, as well as Matrix at $25k, as well as Nucleus at $5k. So don’t try to tell me that Yamaha/SB couldn’t swing a similar line of products!
- 1 on disagree
For example Avid has market for both the S3, and the S6
Have you checked the prices on an M40 configuration ?
I have a board, with faders only automation, but would jump on a $ 3-4K full featured controller as well.
The Lexus was a way of tapping into a luxury-item market, Nuage isn’t. Nuage is about utility.
But again A) it’s about utility. Nobody in their right mind would buy Nuendo if it wasn’t for the extra features it provides. On the other hand why would I care that there’s a cheaper car when I want and can afford a Lexus?
B) the ratio between Cubase and Nuendo is interesting. Using Sweetwater’s numbers Cubase is 550, and Nuendo is 1800, NEK is 400. So we’re looking at Cubase essentially being one fourth of what Nuendo+NEK is. That makes sense. And “lemix” brought up the Avid s3/s6. There we’re looking at about 20%. Now apply that to a Nuage 16-channel fader unit at about 12,000 and you end up with $2,400-3,000.
I never said they couldn’t produce a similar line, but comparing SSL’s lineup to Steinberg’s is apples and oranges. The Duality and the Matrix are both analog consoles with DAW control on top of it. In a sense a Matrix is a better value considering what you’re getting (assuming you can make do with HUI), and the leap down to a 5k Nucleus thus makes sense, again at a fifth of the price.
The best way to illustrate my point is probably to ask the question:
In your opinion - what can you subtract from the 16 fader Nuage controller to get to $5,000 or less?
(And if you add anything to the Nuage unit then the price goes up)
And, in yet another way of phrasing it:
If you add up all you want to see in a $5,000 Nuage controller, what functionality is left out and does it justify the extra $7,000 to get the “full” Nuage?
It works because the s6 is a lot more expensive. The s6 M10 starts at 24k, and the M40 at 44k. The gap from there to 5k is large. What do you end up with if you cut 3/4ths of a Nuage?
I remain unconvinced that they could see the benefit in a cheaper line. But I really really hope I’m wrong.
For me the question is also about the size of the unit.
Nudge looks impressive and there are situations when you need that, but for me it’s just too big (and high!)
They could make the controller with an 8 fader version and offer 8 or 16 fader pack options for the future. I don’t need the lining up multiple 24’ screens to show me what’s happening with the fader section. I’ll use the already provided Nuendo mixers for that feed back. As for the features, I shouldn’t have to give up any BECAUSE the hardware is simply an extension of the software. So, if Nuendo does it, the hardware should have a way access it. It just won’t be as elegant as Nuage.
The biggest difference between the Euphonix MC Pro and the Artist Series MC Control was access to features. There were waaayy more soft keys, the MC Pro had smart switches, joy sticks and a LOT more buttons to access features provided by the DAW. I was able to replicate that functionality pretty closely with my MC Control and a 51 key X-Keys unit. **The more direct buttons I had to house my macros and KC’s, the closer I got to the Pro version.**If I got a transport, I’d get closer still. IF the Mix units would bank together and work like the fader buckets of the Sys 5, it would’ve been a very viable alternative. But because I’m limited to only a few encoders and buttons on the MC Control, I have to go through numerous menu pages to access controls that were INSTANTLY available on the MC Pro. As annoying as that may be, I can accept the extra effort required on my part because of the huge cost savings.
So, back to the Lexus/Toyota analogy. I don’t expect the same level of comfort in a long ride in a Camry that I would expect from a Lexus LX460. But both would have AC, Bluetooth, and Satelite radio.
It’s a great solution for me. I use a Yamaha DM2000V2 as controller, and it works great with Nuendo, but I’d like a better transport section (weighted wheel) and functions for trimming, nudging… So something like Pro Tools Dock is perfect for that.
I think there’s a market for that as there’s a market for big Nuage systems. 1000$ around is a good price.
What do you mean by “not as elegant”? So far what I hear you say is that you want at least 8 faders, and no concession on functionality which I take to mean that you need the buttons and pots to stay. So if you keep the buttons and all functionality and just “shave off” 8 faders, is that really a $5k controller? Is it even half that at $6k? See what I’m getting at?
Define what you want in the controller and state the price - and compare it to a Nuage and its cost.
For what it’s worth, I don’t disagree that there ‘should’ have been a different lineup. The Avid s3 has a lot going for it; form factor, # of faders and pots, good quality (compared to Artist series as far as I know), and a good price relative to the actual studio controller s6.
From my standpoint I agree that form factor is important, i.e. not too big and not too deep. In addition I think 12-16 faders is key. Also, for a lot of people I really don’t think certain things are that important. My logic behind what I want is asking “what is the most difficult to achieve otherwise?” Touch sensitive motorized faders is #1 on that list. Transport functions are not. I’ve used the keyboard and mouse for transport for over a decade and it’s just as good. Why waste money and real-estate on those buttons? If anything I’d want buttons related to what I do on the surface - selecting automation modes etc, as well as user-definable ones with macro capability. And I’d still want either three pots per channel (expensive) or a matrix like on the good 'ol Digidesign Icon, where the pots are logically laid out to correspond to an EQ for example. Just attention a track and your hands can figure out which band/function you’re addressing without looking.
I’d have loved the WK-Audio 12-channel controller but with said matrix. Too bad they went belly up…
So I would have loved to see such a device in the 4-8k range (depending on exactly what’s on it), and expandable, then above that the Nuage lineup, although also with a matrix, and with included monitors as at least an option (I wonder for how long we’ll have form factors that match). And then on the way low end I guess there was the cheap stuff that Steiny decided to not produce any longer.
Still have an old Houston floating around here …
Here we’ve one Houston unit too. It was a great and solid controller. A development over it would be the answer maybe.
Still have and use one as a secondary controller for the keyboards.
I even got a car painter to spray the armrest dark blue.
But the Nuage in the other studio is just .
I’m with you.
I never-ever was a fan of controllers, I hated them and I still hate pretty much all of them.
But Nuage is on another planet. Whatever they may say about S6 and other fancy tools, Nuage is so freakin’ good that we will install a second one in our Cinema-room, which we are rebuilding as we speak.
After Nuendo by itself, Nuage is definately the best money I ever spend.
(BTW, you need to update your signature, cannot not have Nuage in it. )
Nuage is the best controller I’ve seen in flesh so far (even compared to ID, Euphonix system 5 MC, Icon)
The added value is awesome ! In a way, it is better than Nuendo by itself.
I haven’t had the chance to mix a project with it yet, but just toying around and you get the impression. It is incredibly deeply integrated in Nuendo.
Yamaha/Steinberg did such a fantastic job on this ! You can tell they had people from the trade and probably been gathering information for years before putting it out !
I’m in love.
I didn’t put it in my sig because I only put gear I personally bought. But out of all the Nuendo audio engineers shifting at Label 42 (where the Nuage is), We’re only two in this forum I reckon. And the other one is not posting much. I guess I’m the spokesperson then. In that regard, I’ll put it in my sig under work-config.
I really want to be proficient on Nuage. Having the chance to work on it is a privilege.
Actually I’m upgrading my own room at the moment, because once you touch Nuage, nothing cut it anymore. I need to motivate myself to still use my personal setup.
(Gollum mode on) My precious.