Windows 10 - please do not upgrade! Discussion

Cubase
141

Complaints and criticism are not necessarily the same thing. If a complaint is more an expression of emotional frustration and criticism is more an expression of considered observance of the adverse affects or management of issues, then one can make a criticism that isn’t a complaint, and vice versa.

And how useful either are is dependent upon their:
a) Accuracy = how much is being given for SB to work with.
b) Relevance = how much SB is actually responsible for, or could have reasonably have done anything about.

Win 10 had a breakneck release schedule in the final stages before release, and how much any developer could have been ‘ahead of it’ is dependent upon how linearly incremental each build was in the relevant components upon which their apps are dependent.

MS obviously was not expecting ANY OEM to supply W10 machines or compatible software on its release date, so they provided no protracted lead time where hardware and software OEMS could get ‘all their ducks in a row’ in time.

I suspect that is part of the ‘continual incremental improvement’ paradigm the OS now works to, which is a two-edged sword in that:
a) It is not ‘everything to everybody’ from release, but
b) It can be fixed up to be so more quickly as issues arise.

I am heartened that MS was proactive enough to contact SB, as I expected prosumer audio products to be fairly low on MS’s priorities. However, I suspect that MS’s audio focus in the OS was on consumer use cases, which may not have translated into pro use cases as reliably.


SB may have not exercised their full due diligence in preparing for the W10 release, but there is NO evidence presented so far that backs up that assertion, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

At any rate, the issues and their causes are not totally clear-cut, and not necessarily affecting everyone (at least on the anecdotal evidence presented so far), so they have issued a conservative recommendation – which is fair enough – while they investigate further.

Anyone is free to upgrade to W10 at any time they want, but they then accept FULL responsibility for any disruptions to workflow caused by their use of unsupported products – not just SB’s – on it.

142

You saw my :wink: … :wink: ?

143

Hi guys.

Whilst I completely acknowledge Cubase 8 on Windows 10 is not supported, for those desperate to get Cubase working with Quicktime, see the following:

http://tommynation.com/install-quicktime-windows-10/

It’s a little dirty, but it works and I now video in Cubase 8.

Cheers,

Ash.

144

Patanjali, I propose that you be employed by Steinberg PR. You are doing such a good job smoothing it out for them. You see, they don’t even feel the need to reply or keep us updated about an update. It’s all good.

145

No. I just have realistic expectations when issues occur with very complex software on a new OS. Just no use riding their back when I know that they know what is at stake.

Only 4 days since Ed Doll last reported. This is non-trivial stuff, especially if liaising with Microsoft.

What is so important about W10 that you need frequent updates? If you are so eager, you may as well try it out to find if it works for your system. You could probably update and roll-back W10 10 times before there is likely to be any definitive answer from SB. Just reality again, given the level of investigation and testing to be done by them.

146

Hi guys,

I have got round this by setting priority to “realtime”. Obviously this is temporary workaround but it would be interesting to see if it works for others.

Open Task Manager - Right Click on the Cubase task and Go to details.

Right click on Cubase8.exe and set priority to Realtime.

See if it helps.

Unfortunately the normal (old hack / batch file / addons etc.) methods of doing this automatically don’t seem to work in Win 10 so it has to be done manually after each start of Cubase (and it seems to reset when changing some other settings too.)

realtime.jpg
realtime.jpg699×494 83.2 KB

147

My 2 cents about Steinberg’s communications…

Of course this topic is hot. Very hot and so far we got (1) communication statement titled “Windows 10 - Please, Do Not Upgrade” issued over a week ago. Nothing since then.

That, fellow CB7 users is very poor customer communications. Period.

I would expect a daily (at a minimum, at least weekly) communication update for a topic of this level of importance to their customers. World class businesses work to plans that include timelines. These plans require progress reports to upper management. This is the type of information that should be communicated to us (of course minus company private info). Most complex projects like this one will have setbacks and hopefully contingencies to deal with them. We, as customers/users would need to accept these things as adults and not kill the messengers (so to speak). If there is no plan/timeline at Steinberg for this project then they have a problem.

I’ve expressed these similar opinions/thoughts on this forum a few times for other issues that were not well communicated by Steinberg. Since then I thought they were improving. Now, maybe I was wrong.

Bottom line… Steinberg’s customer communication for this issue is lame and I’m embarrassed for them.

Sorry but, thats how I feel.

Regards. :sunglasses:

148

Oh, please.

149

Yes. Some don’t let facts get in the way of a rant! :unamused:

150

Cubase 8.2 with RME MADIfX runs great here on Win10
Only issue i have is the EUCON 3.22 drivers, which wreck windows acros the board, but dissabling them w10 runs perfect, now it’s just waiting on AVID to play ball. It’s really annoying that tier 1 vendors don’t have their win10 readyness in order after a year of testing.

151

Steve,
If you believe a response or two to a discussion in our lounge is a periodic communication about a serious concern… then that’s your prerogative (or you work for Steinberg and have to think that).

From my point of view… I thank Ed for those posts but, make no mistake, and I won’t speak for everyone, most customers/users would like a regularly scheduled update for this issue. That’s the new norm. Anything less is… less than world class customer support.

So now I voiced my opinion twice in this thread so I consider it voiced unless I get another “Oh please” response that begs for a reply.

Regards to all. :sunglasses:

152

Some are exaggerating the “level of importance” and “seriousness” of this issue. It is basically a Windows 8.2 update. It is no big deal. So you can’t use Cortana on your DAW for a few weeks. Even if it turns out to be several months before they sort it out, no one is really missing out on much by having to wait to upgrade. If someone thinks they absolutely must have Windows 10 on their DAW and can’t wait a few weeks or even months, they really need to take a close look at what is more important to them.

If you haven’t upgraded to W10 yet, I promise you aren’t missing all that much. It can wait…

Windows 10 WAS NOT listed in the system requirements when we bought Cubase (any versions) so lets all stop whining that W10 has been out for a whole two weeks and we can’t use it on our DAWs yet.

153

It’s the opposite. Some are too downplaying the importance of the moment. Several million people have switched to Windows, 10. This includes users of the product Steinberg. It does not matter to us, you say? Taking into account recent trends in the production of unfinished “new” product is exactly what it sounds like. Reaper works in Win 10. Sonar work. Many products running in Win 10, which, incidentally, the year was publicly available for developers, but Steinberg.
And it is a tradition - Cubase 8 Pro is still not working properly, and soon customers will be 8.5, this model was 7, 7.5 …
What is wrong with us? This is a pity, because the ideas themselves and the concept of the product is very pleasant for me. But it’s not their implementation.
Sincerely.

154

It’s true. They dropped the ball. Virtual desktops in Windows 10 are appreciated. There are a lot of reasons to switch and some of us use other programs, not just Cubase which benefit from Windows 10.

There is an explanation of Windows 10 audio improvements from the Cakewalk blog:

I asked Microsoft if there had been any changes to the Windows kernel (the lowest level in the audio stack, which can make or break low latency audio processing) that affect audio processing and received this response:
“Yes. There have been changes in the multimedia scheduler service and kernel components to minimize DPC spikes (particularly when in lowlatency mode).”

This is great news, because it could make a big difference to low-latency streaming apps

Drivers and applications can “opt in” to isolate and dedicate low latency audio processing to a single CPU core, which can minimize the effect of DPC latency spiking from networking, Bluetooth, or other DPC spiking processes by preventing interruptions to audio processing. Behind the scenes this is done using interrupt steering and thread affinity. This is an opt-in feature at the WASAPI level where an app has to identify the threads that need to belong to this isolated core.

This feature looks promising, particularly because Microsoft says they’re looking to expand this to multi-core scenarios that relate to DAWs like SONAR.

155

Tested it for a few days now and C8.0.20 works perfectly fine with Win10.
Maybe it also depends on the hardware, me like most RME users here seems to have no dropouts at all.

I have an older Sandy Bridge i7 2600 with 16GB RAM (Asus Board) and a much older RME Multiface.
I can’t detect any dropouts, even with 90% CPU Sessions (over 100 Tracks with about 50 Audio tracks) and my 2 UADs nearly amxed out.

I mostly do mixing and don’t have any complex midi stuff, but I wasn’t able to hear any timing problems, in my sessions.
Is it a milisecond timing problem, that I maybe fail to hear?

I haven’t done any recordings yet.
So no Problems here with Win10, but I keep an eye on it.

156

Must just point out that I am also on RME (FF UCX). And the dropouts did not become apparent immediately.
Also i7 / Asus Mobo / 64 Bit / 64 GB (Yes 64) RAM.
The (realtime in ASIO meter) dropouts will happen even on a relatively small project.
I am still having to use the “realtime” workaround that I posted above.
Just fyi. :slight_smile:

157

Same here, I also didn’t notice dropouts immediately.

158

Not having any problems with dropouts or anything, but I noticed that 32 bit VST’s are not working anymore with Cubase 8. When I load any VST from my dropdown, it just resets the track to an empty midi track and doesn’t load the instrument without any message. If I load 64bit, even the exact equivalent vst, it works fine. Anyone else noticed this?

I really hope SB could give us an estimation on when this will be fixed, as I am considering rolling back to Windows 7 if I need to wait for more than a month for a fix.

159

does that mean it took some time while inside the project? (minutes/hours)
Or it took a few days till i had a session with dropouts?

cause I also moved, rezised, opened and closed windows to provoke some problems, but all went fine

160

Potted thread wisdom to date:

A lot of people have W10 and Cubase 8 Pro running perfectly.

Quite a few other people have had problems, some of which are serious.

W10 might offer a few advantages over W7/8, none however are critical.

There were many freely available developer versions of W10, and some manufacturers and developers took the opportunity to get their products ready for W10 on public release. Steinberg did not.

As a result, W10 is not currently supported by Steinberg, and it is not recommended to upgrade. There has been no indication of timeframe to sort out the issues, but they have isolated at least some of the problems. They are making sure the upcoming fix(es) do not compromise W7 or W8 users.

Is that about it?