Windows 8 and Cubase

Does anyone have any solid information about Cubase compatibility and performance issues with Windows 8? I had a brief look at Windows 8. It did seem to run faster that Windows 7 but I found the new Metro UI more of a hindrance than a help. Seeing how Windows 8 is going to be unleashed on the world in 2 months time we’ll have to get used to it.

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=25853&p=166989#p166989

No, we won’t.
I’m planning on staying with Windows 7 at least until I find out if I can turn the phone off in Windows 8.

Windows 8 ?

No chance - still using Windows XP here.

Cubase works perfectly in Windows XP - so why change anything?

@ andyjh & shinta215:

Of course. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. As for myself I’m a happy Windows 7 user. However as of late October there’s going to be people who’ve bought their shiny new PC’s [pre-loaded with Windows 8] to use as their Cubase DAW.

Well, to get support then they´ll have to wait, until W8 it is officially supported. It´s just the same procedure as it was with win 7. The “solid information” will then be the official announcement of Steinberg.

What is this concept of “buying a PC” that you speak of? :confused:
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:laughing:

Did you know that there is actually a “downgrade” clause in the EULA for Windows?
Even if it comes pre-loaded with Windows 8, they don’t have to use it. They can revert to Windows 7.

Also:
Do you know if you can turn the phone (Metro) off in Widows 8?

Of course the first thing we need is solid driver support from our hardware vendors!

What I don’t understand is that there will be no MIDI support for the Metro Apps. Especially because I could imagine some of us welcome the intergration of desktop and tablet (as remote) running the same OS.
James Dailey from the Microsoft Audio Team writes some interesting stuff about it here

…every few years, another chance to relearn another interface to the same underlying operating system. This one even looks like a ‘toy’. Another chance for the users to iron out some more legacy driver incompatibilities? A chance to find out where the Steinberg coder’s shortcuts and lash-up fixes no longer work. Another opportunity for Microsoft to rename and move yet again, all the things that we’ve become comfortable with - Windows Control Panel anyone? No thanks.

I’m sure Cubase will eventually run fine in it, but what’s the point? The application is what matters to me, and I can’t yet see what improved/new functionality Windows 8 is likely to bring to the party. Can somebody perhaps fill in what I’m missing here? Certainly I don’t want/need to run it on my phone :wink:

Maybe this is a timely opportunity for Steinberg to improve the Cubase windowing paradigm, a chance to regularise some of the user interface inconsistencies that have developed, and re-write some of the legacy compatibility code that’s becoming a bit un-manageable andf unreliable? To an outsider, Cubase is starting to look like a monolithic pile of bolted-on afterthoughts. (not that we didn’t want the functionaility, it’s just feeling a little ‘all over the place’).

For now, I think I’ll stick with Win7…it’s been a fairly positive experience for me - particularly on reliability, driver availability/compatibility and performance grounds.

Thanks for posting that link - very interesting to hear how the views of a keyboard-centric Microsoft developer appear to impact on the lack of Midi in Metro apps. This implies that iPad sales for music use are very small, otherwise why on earth would Microsoft not challenge Apple in this area? I had vaguely wondered about a Windows-based tablet as a music possibility in the future on the basis that it might be better integrated into a PC-based Cubase setup. Obviously not!

Steve.

@ niles:

Thanks for the link to the dev forum. Looks like I’ll be steering clear of Windows 8 for the time being. What really surprised me about that forum was their presumption that no-one uses hardware synths any longer. I guess that’s the problem when you have music hobbyists / enthusiasts programming stuff for real people [including real musicians]. I can only hope that Steinberg and the other DAW publishers are beating the Microsoft devs over the head with a long stick to ensure that’s there’s full support for MIDI and Audio.

@ plectrumboy & Alazarin
Indeed it shocked me too a little. I actually had to read it twice.
He said:

The recording industry is quickly moving away from HW synths to SW based synthesis. Personally I have all of my MIDI gear plugged in and ready to go but I don’t know that I’ve turned it on for over a year. My go to keyboard, an Axiom 49, plugs in via USB."

Then I wonder, what magical protocol does his Axiom 49 send over USB we don’t know of :laughing:

Well, though I have no reason to move from Win7 (like I’ve never used any new Windows version earlier then a year or two from release), it appears to me they’re only speaking of the lack of MIDI support for Metro apps. Bad enough, if you want a Win8 tablet to control your gear, but I don’t see a loss of current Win7 functionality there. But maybe I misunderstand?

Yes we are aware.
But in the same part the Microsoft Developer states the record industry moves away from MIDI and all his MIDI gear is unused for a year and he only uses his USB controller. AFAIK his USB controller still sends MIDI messages, despite the fact it’s connected to a USB port. :wink:

Next to that, for some of us tablets are a welcome extension to our DAWs. As we all know Androids latency isn’t al that compared to IOS. Although ICS’s latency is improved compared to earlier versions.
My hope was Windows 8 tablets would offer new opportunities for people who are more familiar with the Windows enviroment to intergrate a tablet in their setup. Next to that I was hoping for a second platform besides IOS where more pro audio tools can be developed by companies like IKMultimedia, Native Instrument and of course Steinberg. Because at this point due to the limitations of Android there simply isn’t any real competition for IOS.

I hope they make at least decent native remote software for metro-tabs, then you could control what ever synth on the screen.(Of course with low latency)
Similar to neyrinck v-control.

Well, that’s the problem. Unless they implement MIDI API support for ARM Metro apps, you won’t find app’s like V-Control for a Windows 8 tablet unless your DAW and the tablet can communicate over another protocol then MIDI or the message data send by the tablet is converted from one protocol to MIDI. But of course that will bring extra latency.
For now ARM Metro Apps can’t handle MIDI data.

The one of the two parts of Windows 8, the traditional desktop of Windows, is basically Windows 7 minus the start menu and some other things. I’ve got two laptops that runs W8 with C6.5. I haven’t really pushed them extensively, but in case I want/need to upgrade to W8, I’d like to have at least tried beforehand. (All 64-bit.)

The other, called WinRT or Windows Runtime (a.k.a. Metro) is a different ball game, since the architecture is sandboxed (i.e. application isolation). One does not have to use the WinRT part of Windows, as long as one does not buy a computer running ARM. (The traditional part of Windows 8 is still only available on Intel architectures, but WinRT runs on all.)

By the way, Microsoft got sued by a german company (no, not Steinberg) for the use of the term “Metro”, so they no longer call it that. (What a fantastic world we have. LOL!)

A positive thing about W8 (both parts) vs W7 for Cubase us that ALL Windows graphics libraries have been updated for hardware acceleration. The OP posted that Cubase seemed faster, and it certainly is in this sense.


So in essence Windows 8 is basically two operating environments:

  1. Windows (traditional desktop) that runs ONLY on the Intel architecture.
    (i.e. on computers using current Windows hardware architecture).
  2. WinRT (i.e. Windows Runtime or formerly known as “Metro”) runs on ALL architectures.

Your current hardware (if you are running Windows 7) will likely have no problems running Windows 8.

Actually very easy. Win 8 has a registry switch that takes care of that.

Open regedit
Navigate to: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
Find the RPEnabled key and right-click, selecting Modify. Change the key from 1 to 0. Click OK to confirm, and you will find that Metro has been disabled.

This is completely wrong. This key does not work with the RTM version. You may use a tool like classic shell to get some sort of start menu back, but you can’t avoid Metro ATM in any way.

Apparently it did work with the DP but it no longer works with the RTM. Seems like MS are trying to force Metro onto people so that they learn to like it (It’s actually not too bad and excellent on any kind of touch surface) but I’, pretty sure that they will provide a switch in the retail product.

Metro is the new start menu.