Is there in Dorico an automatic warning mode, that warns when one writes unplayable music for the instrument one is writing for?
If there isn’t, this would be a welcome addition to Dorico.
Sorry to say, but there is very little support for checking for unplayable music.
The range checking is a very small ant-step towards that, but it does not cover very much. Many instruments has larger range than indicated. Some instruments has “holes” in the range - example might be a tenor trombone without F extension that can play a pedal B-flat but not the B above. (The Bb used to good effect by Glenn Miller in In the mood).
Even within range, it might not be possible to play super strong (fff) or very soft (ppp) for the full range.
And it depends on the tempo. Some very fast leaps or runs are basically impossible on some instruments, but doable at a slower tempo.
It also to a great extent is dependent on the player. A professional player can do things with his instrument that I as an amateur can only dream of.
And, well, I´m not certain that it belongs in Dorico, but we might have a dialog on that.
I find that Dorico, like probably most notation programs, do quite a good job of limiting the range of instruments realistically. That is a first step that is taken care of, a step in the right direction. I suspect, however, musicians are aware of what written fingering is impossible on their instrument, something that is learnt by practise but not easily conveyed to those who do not play that instrument. String instruments players must know which two strings can be bowed together, and which note intervals can be produced this way. Perhaps only string instrument players can properly write for strings. Perhaps only guitar virtuosos can properly write for guitar. For wind instruments there is the consideration of phrasing to allow for breathing.
And so much more.
Apparently, conductors are aware of all of these techniques and limitations for all instruments.
Dorico wizards, hopefully could investigate and with perhaps the help of AI, program all this into Dorico, producing a kind of inbuilt spell chequer, and we could thus all learn how to properly write playable music for all instruments, without needing to pass on this job to experts.
There are various orchestration books written over the years providing information about each instrument or family of instruments. Many have attended classes in orchestration to learn this kind of information. There are on-line classes if you search.
And there are websites, like this one with a resources section.
https://orchestrationonline.com/resources/books/
And there is Scoreclub and similar which might be useful for scoring ideas.
Thanks for your insight and orientation, however orchestration is not exactly what I’m after in this topic, but more specifically fingering and playing techniques of individual instruments. Surely there is much written about this also, as there is much written about spelling in every language, but my point is. Wouldn’t it be nice to simply have it as a spell chequer in Dorico? Dorico already has hundreds of rules that prevent one form writing incorrectly. For example, you can’t write 4 quarter notes in a bar if your time signature is 3/4.
And how might that work? Fingerings for most instruments are a matter of personal taste
There is personal taste fingering and there is impossible fingering, or rather, note sequences which are impossible to play in a particular instrument, which is what one should avoid writing, if one wants one’s music to be playable.
Highlight unplayable sections
There is no substitute for understanding each instrument’s limitations if you want to be a decent composer. Please talk to practitioners rather than expect some software to adjudicate.
as mentioned, playable by whom? A pianist might have to span more than an octave with their hands for the notes, some can only stretch an octave, then beginner, professional, child? Many times there might be different fingering for the same, let the player decide, does this mean you provide both? (Was it someone saying, for Ravel, you need two hands and your nose to play?)
For string players, guitar they might prefer (or insist) on working out their own fingering because a bunch of notes can be played on different strings in different positions. There are different options if playing a 4 string bass guitar than a 6 string, or 5 string bass, or one with a low-C). For a guitar, might one string (or more) be set to different tuning, for sound (aural) or maybe it is simply easier to play (most of) it fingering-wise with G = F# (just an example.) This could be for hand stretches or any other reasons.
As has been mentioned here in a few harp threads, although Dorico can work out harp diagrams, harp players are used to (prefer) to work out their own.
I used to play English Horn (Cor Anglais). There are two systems of construction of the keys you press to get which notes, no thumbplate (conservatoire) and thumbplate, although some models like mine (quite common) had both options. My teacher would demonstrate both and we would find what might be the most comfortable or preferred for that section and we might sketch in some fingering markings to remind me which to use (I know this is not what you mean by fingering, just trying to describe some of the complexities.)
As @Janus has pointed out, it is part of our learning process in writing for instruments to talk to instrument players (presumably for the level the music you are composing for) are going to play.
If you are commissioned to write for an artist, then presumably you would talk to them about what you could conceive and discuss between you both what might be possible if you want to extend (technique) in certain directions, as you journey through exploring their instrument, their sensibility and their musicality (and yours.)
I remember hearing a trombone player saying in an interview to just write anything (I think talking about chords, multiphonics), it’s up to me to interpret it and play it, “write anything*”, which was not the answer we were expecting.
If I do not have anyone I can ask, I usually go to a few of my orchestration books (sections for each instrument or family) and check I have not missed anything obvious. There is usually information there about what I need to know which gives me background to then (hopefully) intelligently ask a player just to be sure. And hopefully you will get a correct answer (unfortunately sometimes it is … answers.)
Thinking about this, generally fingering I leave alone unless it is educational or editorial. I can confidently (!??) write upbows for strings (I used to play violin) because I know the sensation and aural effect, or at least appreciate the intention when it is printed on the page as part of the phrase/note.
Perhaps your thinking/question/thread here is more about, what might be possible or impossible on any instrument, not necessarily related to fingering but also notes, speed etc. which again poses the question, who would be playing it (?) (and the instrument being used).
An interesting thread you have started @SibeliustoDorico. I hope you get some more comments here as we ponder this more.
*perhaps implying it won’t sound as two trombones, there is only one of me, but I will do my best to interpret it
Then Low notes
as we know…
nothwithstanding the variability of the lowest notes in instruments which should be considered, depending on what they players might have …
Bass clarinet low Eb or C model?
Flute C or low B key?
Trumpet (depends)
Or high notes for example sax using altissimo fingerings (and a lot of practice)
(sorry some of this post only slightly related, but just thought I would add to the conversation)
One of the first standard works on instrumentation by Hector Berlioz can be found here (in English): https://vmirror.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/43/IMSLP62638-PMLP28373-Berlioz-TreatiseClarke1882.pdf
I would even recommend the version enhanced by Richard Strauss.
I have the book, in my opinion it’s essential for composers and arrangers.
Who decides what is playable or not?
If notes are clearly out of range of the instrument, you can say that it is unplayable, but that is, I think, all you can do!
Something like the 2e sonata for piano by Boulez is, again in my eyes, unplayable, just like the scores by Brian Ferneyhough, or the Opus Clavicembalesticum by Sorabji but still there are people (not too many) that can and do play them, it is a.o. a matter of how much time you want to spend and how dedicated you are…
I would not want any software (AI or not) to decide for me what is possible or not, it is the resposibility of the arranger or composer!
Hi all, I’m a new Dorico user. First of all, please forgive my bad English but it’s not my mother tongue…
I would like to add my two cents to the thread strongly suggesting you the “Study of orchestration” by Simon Adler that dive deeply into the functioning, features and playability of every single instrument. Hope this helps
Er… Sorry for the mistape: he’s Samuel Adler, not Simon
My go-to book . Very detailed in outlining range strengths, limitations, fingerings, playable double stops etc. It was my university orchestration book back in the stone age.
… and welcome to the forum @Maurizio_Cappellari
Having never visited this forum before for anything other than electronic music production reasons it made my day to open this post (which I did mainly to see if it was worth saying that, if, as I expect, @SibeliustoDorico is talking about range rather than difficulty, the free software Muse Score does have that facility, I think) and flick through the comments to find a mention of Opus Clavicembalesticum - yeah! And respect to you for even having tried to play it - I imagine stamina is as much of an issue as skill!
As someone who never got past grade 5 and who is working on their first ‘proper’ piano pieces in over 40 years I’m currently going through that particular dilemma, ie. whether what I’m writing is playable, but luckily do have a tool I can turn to to evaluate this - my son!
@k_b @Vadian I absolutely devoured the Berlioz-Strauss when I was about 15. I loved this tome and it remains valuable to this day, but generally, one has to keep in mind that it is firstly a very personal account from Berlioz and later Strauss and secondly extremely outdated of course (which is meant in a completely neutral way). What is written there about the piano - that it is impossible to fully ascertain what is playable and what not, because pianists keep pushing the envelope further every year - is the one sentence that applies to almost all instruments to some extent.
So, generally the Berlioz-Strauss is an extremely vivid and inspiring source of a deeply musical approach to instrumentation, but in terms of playability and a less biased view on particular instruments (the serpent for example got a lot of undeserved bashing there) I would resort to more recent sources.
Anyway, I have to second what others have mentioned before: In order to learn to write for instruments, there is almost no way around listening and studying a lot, understanding anatomy and instrument construction, and, especially if in doubt, getting to know your musicians. Anything a software can tell you automatically that exceeds the range question will be a very rough estimate at best. Maybe some AI will lead to progress in this regard in the future, but I don’t see it within the next couple of years, as AI currently seems to be used for a lot of messing around and unproductive stuff, rather than getting something useful out of it that justifies the expense of energy, if you ask me.
Ha no, you are wrong, I did not even try to play it! Far from it!
Many years ago I heard it live performed by Geoffrey Douglas Madge, he is one of the few who can…