Wrong things selected with arrow keys around system breaks

I really try to make my two investments in Dorico (version 1.2 and upgrade to version 2) worthwile by trying to switch from Sibelius at last. Bugs like these in the most basic features make this a painful experience.

I tried to attach a screen recording explaining the problem, but this forum won’t let me. Please let me know if I could send the video directly to someone at Steinberg.

In this video, I’m simply moving through the notes on the second staff by only pressing ARROW RIGHT key. Just before the system break, it gets lost. It selects the slur (?!) on the first (?!) staff above it, instead of the next note on the second staff. By pressing arrow right.

Then, after pressing arrow right again, it doesn’t get better. It skips 3 notes, right to the 3rd note of the following bar.

This particular problem occurs only at system breaks.

I could make another video with similar bugs with inputting triplets.

As a professional software developer composing music in my spare time, I understand how difficult it is to get software right, and I apologise for sounding negative. But unpredictable behaviour like this makes this very expensive software package unusable for me.

Please see this thread.

Thank you for your quick reply and I’m sorry that I missed that thread.

Could you please say whether you see this as a serious navigation bug in it’s own right that should be fixed as soon as possible, or as an example of the fact that people ‘don’t like the way navigation works in Write mode’ that should be addressed later in a major UI overhaul?

Thank you in advance.

I certainly agree that it’s not ideal. I cannot promise that we will fix it imminently, but we will look into it.

Ok.

Does somebody know a workaround? (Apart from using the mouse for every select action. I liked the fact that keyboard access is the thing in Dorico.) Switching to Galley View doesn’t help unfortunately… Reinstalling Dorico or copying the notes to a blank new file will not help either I suppose?

By the way, I think I should say this: confirming to a user that a bug is a bug would greatly improve their trust in your software. Now I think that either you still misread my case, or the pile of bugs is so huge that one bug more doesn’t matter that much. I would like to help with anything I could do (explaining specific cases, supplying files, screenshots, etc.) if that’s going to help.

Dear mth,
I have been very active in this forum since the birth of Dorico, October 19th 2016. This topic has already been largely discussed, and the behavior of the arrow navigation is not a bug. It’s a graphical approach that, for once in this software, was probably not the best option. When Daniel tells you they are going to improve this field, you can trust him: they will do.
I make quite an extensive use of the software and finally I almost do not use arrow navigation — only to select individual notes in a chord.
If you explain us what is the thing you are trying to achieve, maybe we can show you another workflow ? And, just to make sure, I do really understand your concern.

Thank you for your reply. I uplaoded the video to Youtube to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptUvYdu5fNk&feature=youtu.be

If it’s not a bug, please tell me:

  • what is the correct way to select the next note on the same staff?
  • what is the use case of selecting a slur above the previously selected note by pressing the right arrow key?
  • what is the logic of selecting a slur above the previously selected note by pressing the right arrow key?

Pressing down?

Haha, I even tried your suggestion. Most of the time, that selects the note on the staff below it, which is what I expect. On this note where it went wrong with the arrow right in my example (last note of bar 3 for 2nd vln, see video), pressing arrow down selects… (I don’t blame you if you don’t believe this) the A7 chord symbol halfway bar 4. But this is definitely not a bug, right.

I would be helped if someone could tell me what is the way to select the next note on the same staff.

Dear mth,
Actually I do work mostly in galley view for what is entering notes or articulations, dynamics… (Write mode stuff) The problems you encounter are really more problematic in page view.
Even if it is not a bug — the selection moves and does not produce another action — the result is clearly not the expected one, so for the user, the difference is purely semantics. My advice would be to make an extensive use of galley view, until the team works on that field again…

We work very hard to make sure that the “pile of bugs” is not so large that “one more doesn’t matter that much”. Please take a look at some of the 7000+ other postings I have made on this forum to verify the Dorico development team’s attitude to bugs before you start throwing that accusation around! I understand your frustration with this behaviour and I have said that we will look into it.

You seem to expect the arrow right button to navigate to the next note, but that’s not what it does - it navigates to the next graphic item to the right(ish), using algorithms to make sure that everything is selectable. That item will of course often be a note, but not necessarily. So as nunocasteleira suggests, pressing down when the slur is selected, would get you to the note you want.
It’s not a bug - the functionality you expect just isn’t there.

I guess many of us would like that functionality (it’s hereby requested), but it’s neither fair nor correct to call it a bug, just because it doesn’t do what you think it ought to do.

@Daniel Thank you for taking the time to answer me again, and thank you for expressing that you understand my frustration. I will wait for the next version again and give Dorico yet another try.

@MarcLarcher Thank you for suggesting a workaround. Galley view also has this behaviour every 5 bars though.

@LeifG Thank you for the clarification. I tried that. Pressing down when the slur at the end of bar 3 is selected, selects the 2nd note of bar 4. That’s exactly the same weird behaviour as the arrow right does. It does not select the note below it (like you and I both assumed).