Wrong Tuplet Written

I’m in 4/4
I want a 3:4 Tuplet which would leed to this:
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-07 um 19.48.29.png
What Dorico makes out of it:
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-07 um 19.50.10.png
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-07 um 19.51.09.png
This is IMO the tuplet you get with 3:2 with 2 beats left in the bar !
What’s wrong here?

It’s not a 3:4 tuplet you want, but a 3:2 tuplet. There’s only room for two minims/half notes in a 4/4 bar.
Ensure you have selected minims/half notes in the left panel (or by typing 7 before you invoke the tuplet popover), then type ; 3 Enter.

But Leo, a 3:2 in a 4/4 bar with quarter notes is not correct…
look what Doirco does if I type in 3:2
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-07 um 20.03.56.png
and now I type in 3:4

Dorico does the exact same thing, but in the 1st example it leaves 2 beats rest - which is correct.

A 3 over 4 tuplet in a 4/4 bar must be with half notes !

Look at this please:
a 3:4 clearly is written with half notes and equals 4 beats, not with quarter notes. With quarter notes, it is a 3:2 and equals 2 beats.

A 4/4 bar contains a whole rest, which can be divided into two half notes. If you want three half notes, that’s three half notes in the time of two half notes. I don’t know how to explain this any more clearly!

ahhh…now I get the point how Dorico handels it…ok ok ok ok
yep…as usual you are right…thanx

That’s because you’ve asked for three crotchets/quarters in the time of four crotchets/quarters. If you’d just specified 3 (or 3:2) then Dorico would have given you three in the time of two. You specifically asked it for three in the time of four. Why?!

yeah yeah, got it…but then even things like 5:1 in whole tones are possible, which make no sense at all.
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-07 um 20.22.19.png
I thought that Dorico has like a ‘wrong tuplet filter’ built in :slight_smile:

No, and it’s a jolly good job it doesn’t have a built-in “wrong tuplet filter” - misusing tuplets is a very useful workaround for various scenarios.

I understand

Can you tell me a scenario Leo - just out of curiosity. And how would a musician handle a 5:1 tuplet with whole notes in a 4/4 bar? Would it really matter if it would be 5:1 whole notes or 5:2 half notes or 5:4 quarter notes tuplet?
He would give them the same length anyway…wouldn’t he?

Sure, but that’s not relevant to how Dorico works. You need to tell Dorico what the note value of the tuplet is, and then how many of them you want to fit into how much time. Sure, you might want normally want 3:2, 4:3 or 5:4, but occasionally people need to be able to write 5:3 or 9:7 or whatever.

[Spoiler alert: I’m not Leo]

The point is that you have the choice. Certainly you wouldn’t want Dorico to dictate which types of tuplets you could create and which ones you couldn’t, right? And as Leo said, there are quite a number of helpful workarounds that involve hidden tuplets. I’m thankful for the option, regardless of what a real musician might prefer to see.

EDIT: I HATE HOW FINALE DOES TUPLETS. It limits the number of notes within a tuplet based on the next-highest standard division of the beat. So this is a breath of fresh air.

yes, my question was not really about Dorico. I was just curios (to widen up my very limited horizon) in which situations one would use ‘unusual’ tuplets - independently of what is possible in Dorico :wink:
it’s not meant to be in a sarcastic way - i’m REALLY interested, because I just can’t imagine/don’t know.


Like Dorico, Finale can fit any number of whatever value notes you want into any number of beats. Finale example below:

Personally, I’m glad both offer this sort of flexibility. I would hate to be in a situation where I needed something really uncommon and not be able to do it.

Hmm… maybe I was doing it wrong for 20 years. Definitely possible. Can’t say I care any longer, but I guess I should avoid casting unfounded aspersions.

an example, where (hidden) tuplets 19:16 are the way to notate this kind of harpsichord music:

Misusing tuplets is a VERY efficient way to notate cadenzas of all kinds, with the other parts keeping the right rhythm.

Well, here are some 20:4 (and 19:4) tuplets written by that obscure avant garde composer - Haydn :wink:

(And I like the “kinky” beams as well - another feature request for Dorico???)