Yikes, just realized MIDI loop-record results are completely deficient? Record with audio and you will see

Create an Instrument track and an Audio Track with the output of the instrument track going to the input of the audio track to record the audio.

the MIDI looped events:

-silent bars are automatically removed? which means the MIDI will be misaligned to the audio.
-doesn’t behave like loop-recorded audio events where you can stretch the first events length out
-no way to quickly spread out events horizontal
-Cut-off notes retrigger

there needs to be a better system than this? Just make them behave like audio events where the first event can length stretched revealing what was recorded as one event instead of the stacks.

After tonight, I’m avoiding doing looped MIDI recording at all costs!


      • Steinberg, the looped audio-record stretched out to full length from first event, and the looped midi recorded events re-aligned horizontally to that stretched out audio - should play back exactly the same in unison - they do not.


I’m never doing that again.

Could you explain why you chose to record the midi in a loop that stacks midi parts? What was your intention to do so?

Just to understand you whole intention and workflow idea!

Hope to help, Ernst

PS.: To my understnding CYCLE Recording is there for the purpose of having multiple takes of the same musical position (bars/beats) recorded in one go in order to comp a “best” version of all these takes later (without ever changing the musical position of the takes/the resulting comped version). The second purpose (and why midi recording in cycle mode is different from audio recording in cycle mode) is to “stack” the recordings (which is handy for people who cant play a keyboard too well and/or just want to add drum-instruments pass per pass/recording cycle per recording cycle) - again without EVER changing the musical position of the result. For this purpose the whole cycle recording is designed and it absolutely works as expected for this.

On occasion I do what the OP is attempting but with audio because it’s guitar, but if I were a decent keyboard player I’d want to be able to do the same thing in midi.

Probably 90% of the time I’m using loop recording just as you describe. But sometimes, especially if it is over a 2 chord vamp, I just want to loop a section and jam over it trying different things out. I could duplicate the vamp over a long section and do it that way. But the problem with that is I don’t know in advance how long to make the vamp. Loop recording solves this. I can set the loop to be 8 bars long, but then record solo attempts of whatever length happens - so maybe one take is 16 bars, the next 12 bars, then a few empty bars while I take a sip of something :laughing: and then move on to another few takes. The point is that the beginning & endings of musical phrases are not aligned to the loop positions. A solo might start on one Lane and end 3 Lanes later. Once done I can drag out the top Lane so it shows the entire recording. Now I can duplicate the vamp for the length needed (because I now know how long that needs to be) and get on with finding the best guitar part(s).

If I were doing a keyboard solo, doing the same thing with MIDI would be useful.

Hi you, thank you for the explanaion. i understand now. Makes sense to me.

And since the additional feature would not hurt anybody or anything - it is welcome. ;o)

I cycle record midi all the time here. Leave some space on the front of your loop and the back, measure maybe.
Stacked No Mute setting. Comp the MIDI. Render In Place to Audio.
No need for a separate AUDIO track IMO.

I get what you are saying though, they should match function wise

This assumes that the length of the loop is related to the length of the part being played. While that is most often the case, it is not always the case. In that situation this wouldn’t cut it.

Thats why we call it CYCLE recording

In the heat of the moment, it’s simply the quickest way to get an in-the-moment idea down if it is in the midst of other material -
The time it takes to - create space, solo only the tracks you want to be hearing so as to not have the rest of the track interfere, duplicate the events horizontal into that space which may consist of multiple tracks unless you decide to export the loop, etc.

It’s just the quickest most thoughtless way to get an idea down which may come out of nowhere based off an ambient guitar backtrack that wasn’t going to be used and you accidentally unmuted.

In this case - I’m damn glad I recorded the audio, because the MIDI was - not - even close a representation of what was played. Silent measures were deleted automatically it seems, so I had re-align the MIDI to the audio but it didn’t end there. Sustained notes were cut off at the loop points which created all sorts of mess - either ending notes early, or double playing notes that weren’t played like that.

The other issue, is if you hold a note over 2 or 3 bars, that note will be chopped up to become separate notes that will playback instead of one long sustained note. Could there not be some sort of protocol that signifies to the program which notes are held so that they do not re-trigger?

Every stacked MIDI event should contain all previous and future MIDI of that record-initiation, just how it works with audio.
thus fixing the sustained notes if I were to drag out the length of the first event to reveal all that was recorded.

Not sure I’m getting this. For one it causes the recorded MIDI to playback as you continue to loop? maybe I’m doing it wrong. To me it doesn’t really solve the issue.

@lovegames, I think you are fighting the design of Cubase here. To get around what you are talking about I simple copy that section I want to vamp around down the timeline and dont use CYCLE recording for midi.
If you dont want to hear the takes in cycle then just do cycle with mute.

I get what you and Raino are saying but I think it is just a design issue.

Of course something like this is design issue - what else could it possibly be?

But the point is that the design should treat recording audio & recording MIDI the same to the extent possible. There are already a bunch of MIDI mix/stack modes, adding one to do this is not a huge ‘ask’

However the audio & MIDI under discussion really are two different things from Cubase’s perspective. The audio is an EVENT while the MIDI is a PART. So that might be part of the cause. Dragging out an Audio Part doesn’t reveal additional content like on an Audio Event.

Midi is EVENTS from my experience. Apparently they are Parts to Steiny

The Note data, cc’s and other stuff inside a MIDI Part are the actual MIDI Events.

Parts are containers for Events.

I’ve got the start of an idea of how to unstack the MIDI takes in a Part’s Lanes. Thought I’d post it to hopefully spark ideas.

I looped 2 bars and meander played what turned out to be 13 Takes, which Cubase thoughtfully names “TakeX” on each Lane. Then I duplicated all the Lanes 13 times. You can’t just select the Part and copy/duplicate it because it will only copy the currently active Lane. So show the Lanes & select them all to duplicate. Alternatively I used the Arranger Track to make the copies.

The attached pic shows this grid of Parts & Lanes along with a PLE that selects all the takes with “Take5” in their name and are beyond the cursor. Instead of just selecting them they could be deleted. Of course you’d need individual presets for each take number.

I figure a Macro could move the cursor around and use the PLE to delete different sections of takes.

Another approach might be to leave the takes in one stack and use the PLE to move or copy the various takes along the timeline. Actually I suspect that’s the better way. No matter, the key is the ability select different takes which is only possible because of the auto-naming.

another tip:
just play along in the loop and use Retrospective Recording with “Insert as Linear Recording”.
Get used to forget the Record Button…

It has its limitations though