I’d used Cubase since it’s early Atari 1084STE days. Round about Cubase 8 I’d reached the most factuality I needed. I’d been pissed off royally by Tascam and the likes in refusing to provide driver upgrades for their I/o devices when Apple or Steinberg made an update.
So I kept a completely clean system. By that I mean, no system updates, no application updates even no internet access. I also used Steinberg’s UR22 as an io device on the basis of “If they make the hardware they must make it work with the software.”.
Fast forward several years. Overnight the UR32 stopped working. Initially it was the audio. I eventually got that going again only to find the midi had gone.
I’m not technically illiterate and I tried every function I could get. Including here on the forums where it seems 17yr olds sit with twitching fingers thinking “who can I troll next?”
Anyways the reason for this message is an advisory one. If you, as I have, upgraded to get back to your rust and trusted plugins - don’t bother. They’ll either need upgraded to your new DAW or your new OS.
Let’s be serious here - what massive revelations has done Cubase 12 over 8? Do you simply want a DAW to record the input?
Actually, one of the biggest reasons has to do with changing to a 64 bit architecture, which every computer now runs on. If you are using a 64 bit system (PC or Mac), it’s not just Steinberg you’re dealing with; it’s all programs. You update a driver and it’s 64 bit which is incompatible with everything 32 bit. So keep your oldest computer running and don’t touch it. Progress is inevitable. You can’t pick and choose which part of it you want; it’s everything or nothing. You can still make good music on your old stuff.
Thanks Albert. You’ve been the only person to make a sensible reply. I’ve had 5 others from complete eejits spamming me.
In response to your message, I became completely exasperated with both Tascam or Fostex (can’t remember which now as it’s so long ago) and then Korg for refusing to update their drivers whenever Apple updates their OS. So I eventually kept a completely closed system and bought their Steinberg/Yamaha io device thinking that it must simply work. Then last year the audio failed on it. I was able to get that working myself but after that, a few weeks later the midi stopped. I spent months trying to get Steinberg to help and they kept referring me to the fact that their io device couldn’t function with Cubase 8. When I was able to show them their old marketing material which stated clearly that it did work with it (why else would I have bought the thing if it didn’t work!) they stopped corresponding with me and referred me to their forum.
That’s where I got the flaming messages and hence the post I left.
Eventually I bit the bullet and bought a new Mac, upgraded to the latest version of Cubase only to find all my VSTs need an upgrade. And they all cost which I simply can’t afford. Oh and the external drive I had for audio and then the backup drive both failed simultaneously- I think this was due to a house move I had which unsettled them. Talk about the stars not aligning even slightly!
I’d backed up everything to iCloud as well only to find these files aren’t compatible with the latest versions of Komplete etc. So I think I said this but that’s over 20 years of recordings wiped.
Thankfully I’ve still got a Roland VS-1680 which has a few songs on it. And even more thankfully I came across a song I’d completely forgotten about - so that’s good.
But all in all it’s been an awful experience with Steinberg. The problem with both Steinberg and Apple is that once you’ve bought into their ecosystem it’s pretty hard to extract yourself from it. Still that’s life!
I appreciate you taking the time to give an intelligent reply.
Oh and btw, as this is a sharing platform take a look at my YouTube page. There’s a lot of personal stuff there as well but you’ll find some tracks of mine. The vocals and guitars were by a guy who was the most talented multi-instrumentalist I have ever had the pleasure to work with. A real gem. And if you come across the Glendun instrumental I wrote that during the first lockdown. I’m in rural area of N. Ireland and used to take a trip up to this glen everyday. One day it was four seasons in just one day. Snow from the top of the Glen down to glorious sunshine at the bottom. The piece reflects this.
The issues above are why it’s so important to render all plugins and instruments to audio at the end of a project.
Plugin compatibility simply cannot be guaranteed in the fast-moving digital era. To be fair, the same would apply in the old analogue realm if you lost/sold a piece of hardware. It all has to be printed to tape/disc at some point, be that a stereo mixdown or a full multitrack.
With hardware you can plug in an old synthesizer from 30 years ago and play it. You can’t say the same with software. Good luck with selling plugins if you stop supporting them in 5-10 years (e.g. Retrologue, Padshop). I can only say “lesson learned”.
How does Ableton guarantee that third-party developer plugins remain compatible? For example, 32-bit plugins are no longer supported by most modern DAWs, and developers, should they even still exist, aren’t always going to update them. It’s just the way it is.
Agreed, but they can fail, or you may no longer have access to it , in which case you need to substitute that device when it comes to recall.
It simply cannot be assumed that any software will be supported indefinitely, or hardware will be working/available, so rendering to audio is, and always has been, the solution.
Thanks Shaun, but there is truth in what others are saying about progress marches on. Cubase now has a block list for plugins that are not compatible; you might find some or your favs in there.
I worked in analogue studios through the 80’s and 90’s but only as a record producer, so when I decided to do audio engineering, I actually started in digital with Cubase vst32. So I have always accepted the issues that come up as being part of the digital environment. I don’t own any Apple products, but in my PC world, it seems that things sort themselves out pretty quickly. We are still in the growing years of digital and there are still going to be many more advances which translates to a moderate learning curve at times; but that’s neither Mac or PC, just technology. Once you accept the change, you’ll begin to ‘almost’ embrace it. Cheers. I’m heading over to your youtube page.
Thanks for your intelligent reply unlike the others on here.
I’d love if my problems were so simple. I kept a closed system for years as what I had worked for me and I didn’t need all the new gubbins that Steinberg produced.
Yes Albert and as an old fogey it’s hard to keep up with it all. Aside from getting my head around the new Cubase I’m also trying to get backed up projects running on 12 but with not much success. They’re mainly .cpr and .bak but also some dating back years to .csh. Get me analogue tape and a couple of racks and I’d be happy!Incidentally my use of Cubase dates back to hacked versions running on an Atari 1080 STE! And that was way before the internet where you replied to an ad and received a 3.5” disk with it. Totally illegal but it was the only way to get a program that cost such a high price when you were 20.
I wouldn’t say my system was ‘closed’ but I had Windows 7 (which I loved) and Cubase 9 which I also loved.
I went to upgrade to Cubase 11, and guess what, it works with Windows 7 but only with the additional service pack.
One problem. Microsoft withdrew support for Windows 7 , including the service pack.
I upgraded to Windows 10, or should I say, I tried to, but my motherboard wouldn’t work with Windows 10 as the BIOS was not compatible with Windows 10. Also, ASUS withdrew support and updates for the drivers of that motherboard, including drivers that would work with Windows 10.
So, I had puzzle pieces but none fit together anymore.
So, a 2K PC was thrown in the trash, thanks Cubase, and thanks Microsoft
Plus, I had to fork out another 3K for a new PC…sigh…
It was a 10-year PC, but that was beside the point. I should be able to choose what Windows I want to use, as I want to use it. I suppose, the defense for Cubase is that they can only upgrade with what operating system is available at the time, but still, hugely disappointed…
I’m going to move away from Cubase for a bit and look at it philosophically.
Working in a closed system has its advantages in principle, but unfortunately only for a certain period of time.
But the longer you don’t get in touch with the “outside world”, the more extensive (or worse) the consequences are if for some reason it does have to happen.
For example, there are still many people who don’t want to pay cashless, who don’t have a smartphone, etc., and at some point they find themselves in an underground car park and can’t get out because the cash machine doesn’t accept cash:(
That actually happened to me!
Back to the actual topic. You’re talking about the advantages and longevity of hardware.
I’ve been working in recording studios with a lot of hardware for 35 years and if all devices, the tape machines in particular aren’t regularly maintained, you can’t use them anymore after a certain time.
Personally, I see the consistent updating of all my software in the same way as maintenance for hardware devices, it’s annoying, it costs time and money, but it has to be done so that everything works perfectly.
I’m also very annoyed that Steinberg doesn’t upgrade drivers for my (expensive) Steinberg audio interfaces (mr816). I have to stay on an old version of mac os, and I will never be able to use them with apple silicon. That really sucks! And I guess Apple is also to blame, for making a lot of things incompatible every time they upgradethe os.
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