Indeed!
Thanks for the info, Ill check a bit further…I noticed the visible tracks was not implemented in remote api either
BUT
I really do use gestures a lot as it simplifies so much eg take mutually exclusive state objects like mute and solo
Gesture 1 = tap (base)
Gesture 2 = press and hold (shifted)
Gesture 3 = double tap (extended)
Gesture 4 = double tap hold (defeat)
So a tap on a typical MUTE button does the ‘base’ action
Tap and hold the normal mute button and the ahifted action is SOLO
Double tap is the extension = RECORD ENABLE
Double tap hold = REMOVE ALL / RESET
So that makes it simple fast and logical…but it needs to interpret gesture…so yeah without that Eucon maybe wont do
Well, I suppose that probably won’t work, and if there are “gestures” (?) they might not be user-definable. Of course some of what you mentioned has dedicated buttons; mute, solo, record enable. For things like “remove all / reset” it may be either directly exposed via Eucon or indirectly if you can assign a key command to it in Cubase and then just trigger the key in Eucon.
If you have a tablet lying around you can actually get the tablet software for free and install it. Then just turn on Eucon in Cubase and see what functionality you have access to. I think that pretty much everything you might want to trigger from the s1 will be visible in the setup software (EuControl on the DAW) and you can then assign that to softkeys etc on the tablet as well as softkeys on the s1. So you should be able to try some things out without spending money.
And if you have a specific function you’re looking for I can check if it is available if you want.
Thanks so much
I checked it out straight after you mentioned it…such a pity there is no gesturing. Once you get use to it, its so much less fatiguing when doing a lot of work.
I think just the avid control answers some basics and def worth dedicating as the control surface for automation management at the very least. Im just about to model up some sides and print off a little mini mixer type stand for it or is there something already like that?
I dont understand that such UI/UX experts do not engage gesturing…it is so much more human despite having more time req to learn the gestures, the muscle mem is incomparable. Ive been doing it for foot controllers, Ableton controllers etc since 2005
Really appreciate your input…
see we’re all different. I’m not a fan of gesturing, never seemed to ‘jive’ with me on anything , so coming from the analogue world into the digital world hardware controler like the Euphonix made perfect sense to me and still do.
I mix on faders like I used to and any macros, special commands etc I want outside the regular keyboard I make a pad for on the Stream deck Xl along with text or an Icon so I know what it is. The myriad of key commands in Reaper as it’s toolless used to just overload my brain so the Stream deck Xl was a god send.
Anyway I’m sure you’ll find your way, you seem like a resourceful chap 
Interesting thread though for all of us so keep us posted.
M
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The Reaper radial menu is a good solution in Reaper land, I wish something like this existed in Cubase. Particularly as you can run your own actions and macros from it.
In fact, thinking of workflow - I’m amazed that the Dorico jump bar hasn’t made it’s way to Cubase yet. Pressing ‘?’ and searching for an action to run in Reaper is very powerful.
I’m sure it will come at some point though.
thanks yes I"m aware of that but pressing ? to search for an action is extra steps that having an actual named pad on my Stream deck negates.
M
I think things like StreamDeck and Eucon softkeys and maybe Cubase IC Pro really help out with commands that we know we need to use and we can simply look at a color-coded label to know what to push, and I also think that the “Jump bar” is a fantastic tool for finding commands we use rarely and never mapped to one of those soft keys in the first place.
No idea. I’m pretty bare-bones in how I set things up.
Well, there is some “gesturing” in Eucon. If you’re on Pro Tools for example you can click “Select” once to select a track, but if the track is a VCA and you double-click it you execute the “spill” function. So there is at least some of that, plus there are modifier keys.
I probably see it more like Norbury does in that I learned on an analog console so it makes complete sense to have dedicated buttons for core functions, which also makes it a fool-proof interface. No need to learn the "gestures’ to operate the tool.
But yeah, I understand what you’re getting at.
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I don’t think you can get access to hundreds of functions via a few stream deck buttons, it’s quite a different use case. And of course, relies on a fixed desktop environment, whereas I like a workflow that is similar whether i’m on the move, at my desk or using someone else’s machine.
If you’ve tried the jump bar or equivalent it’s really slick, and surely we’ll see it in Cubase in future… I hope, anyway!
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yes sure for easy access to all functions etc
I’ve no probelm with the ‘jump bar’ coming to Cubase i think it will be a great addition.
M
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Ok I have had a bit of time now.
Avid control, S1, dock etc all answer some neat questions
BUT
In a direct AB, its so verbose and so many pages to jump around it really fatigues me in comparison. Even now, I find Im having another focus point rather that one big control area is just not natural.
Comparing eg the mute/solo example and the fragmentation of each fork and button makes it so complex underneath, for me…well for all the tier one stuff. It really does use a lot more horsepower and is distracting from creativity as its def a left brain vs right brain experience.
The universe view is also great, if I didnt already have this but once again you are constrained to another port for this management vs simply scrolling as per the animation above or also a shortcut on the razer for the main group jump…it really feels like walking in jelly using the fragmented control. When hand is on the hardware…the gestures as mentioned to jump to a group are 1 button, 4 gestures to move to group, open all folders/via vis and choose vis config for that group (be nice if there were 16 vis config though)
Ill keep pushing ahead investigating integration but this is def not a replacement…it is as you say for new users, easy to pickup etc but the change to a diff view back and forth vs my hand resting on an ergonomic pad and not looking/barely moving is actually enjoyable and lightning fast in comparison.
In other words…all the functional variations happen in your head (upstream) rather than an array of downstream buttons
Yes I totally understand…I did a lot of time on pedal boards then multi units which is where gesturing started for me…def the streamdeck doesnt work for me though, its a great idea and good for a solution for some stuff…I wish this razer pad had oed buttons…that would be brilliant
I did a lot of 3d work way back…the compass menu was a great development in eg Softimage and still works ok in Rhino/Grasshopper. The mouse/toolbar idea is useful but not fluid. Like I said, I think its good to break down tool use into 3 tiers…very much German manufacturing and workshop manner but it really does work.
If by “pages” you mean the hierarchy of the s1’s soft keys then I absolutely agree that it can be a pure setback. BUT, I really think you’ll need to think about it a bit differently. All of those pages are essentially user-definable, including jumping between the pages. It makes sense to consider what you do and when to take advantage of that and making it easy on you.
For example: I have a softkey for “Mix” which when I press it selects a workspace so that all windows and plugins open where I want them, and it selects a layout on the s1 which has several tracks locked to tracks that are not next to each other in the Nuendo mixer. This may seem like a minor thing but it really does make a huge difference to me. Similarly I can press the “Edit” softkey and a different workspace is activated and the s1 jumps to a different Layout.
As I do this not only does that happen, but the softkeys switch to a different page. In other words while you indeed have a hierarchy of pages if you choose to just do it the way it’s set up by default you can instead get around a lot of that nuisance by getting what you need on the screen when you need it based on the task. I would think for example that if you’re in the process of recording things you may use some functions a lot more than others, and by clicking a “REC” soft key that you have programmed you can switch all of those things including the softkey page, meaning you don’t actually have to think about the hierarchy, just the task at hand "REC(ording)". That’s how I think about it.
Yeah I think I understand what you’re getting at. I suppose what I would say is that you can think of using the tablet as an enhancement to what you do whenever it doesn’t actually replace something directly. I edit plugins using my trackball for example. Editing is 100% on that and my keyboard. The s1 is for fader rides and recalling layouts only. The tablet varies as you saw.
I looked at your video and that seems like a really great way of selecting folders and tracks. Since the s1 should follow selection I guess my original point stands that that function would work better with the s1.
Maybe you can find a unit at a store that accepts returns? Just try it for a week?
You know… I don’t! I haven’t had the need to access that from Eucon yet. I’ll have to look into that.
Thanks again for your help and its very helpful getting insight into others way of working, even if its not immediately obvious ie settles in over time as you try out various ways…
No, just having even just mixer/track/channel etc
That would be cool. I dont actually do any surround outputs but Ive always felt that for some genres especially, a contiguous ‘real’ space that everything shares is so impacting. Tactile control with eyes closed is super important for the following;
This song isnt a genre I generally listen to but its my reference for small acoustic groups, in so many ways. This would have to be a masterpiece in feeling like you are sitting in the midst of the (totally live) recording; crest ratio is unashamed and secure so you have to turn up a bit for the crazy immersion for the very simple elements (amazing at 92db on ATCs)
At the beginning…you will need an account to listen properly or find elsewhere)
GLOBAL SOUNDSTAGING:
It started with wizooverb w5 (nice sized room not too live) and I set up using the same room impulse
A. the Front L&R as mostly just early reflections full bandwidth; mostly, no tail or decay
B. the same impulse but its natural settings plus a little high damp for sides L&R, half the ER
C. same but now no ER and low and high damp for Rear L&R
(ie they are just landscape painting principles)
Now downmix back to stereo
so that creates a full front to back spectrum…maybe someone else has already done it that way but it works so well even with diff reverbs etc used instead like a 140/lexi etc (quadro) as synthetic but convincing and homogenous space (delays as well eg sat tape and analog in quad)
The send panner moves the sound through front to back space…along with appropriate filtering and transient damping it can really exaggerate the depth and only just getting time now to really work in detail hence my other post about high res spaces like this, instead of fudging it.
I just wish there was a surround host like Kore that could map the imporant depth into some macros and control it as a whole
BTW This has been my first hurdle in Reaper…no answers on the forum as yet but I have to post as a separate question I think