After 36 years on Cubase, its time to say goodbye

Cubase
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Yeah…its pretty sad.
I have loved the journey, so much good stuff but pretty much after SX3 I just noticed stuff moving ahead far too fast without fixing the basics. Dropping important Steiny plugs was a real betrayal and even chats on the forum here…no one seems to have any idea about those or never got it…thats ok.
I have myself gone through massive changes over those years, I barely use midi anymore, my jobs are now mostly supplied mixdowns from clients and recordings at this studio
The main reason is being unable to pursue streamlining workflows, midi remote was a good start but its still not capable of replacing the legacy stuff so its just hacky
The system was never given a decent simple macro language and PLE is useful but just lacks super important capabilities
Needless to say I have over the last 2 years invested weeks into automating workflows and its pretty much come to a dead end. I hear no feedback about exposing the Cubase windows so I could at least use Autohotkey to fill in the gaps as it does in other work that I do. There is no power to do stuff as in Live (although its painful, there isnt much that you cant do but the package is not a serious mixing app for me personally). Im not sure where Im going but Im not spending anymore time on C12 as any bugs I work on unlikely to be fixed and Im not prepared to move to C14 after the absolute weeks it took me to get C12 stable…perhaps its old teimplates? I dont know
Ive looked at studio One but it is not looking that great at what I really want to do…which is in reality pretty simple, just be able to set the machine up to work as I do…and without doing java/api rubbish (Ive been a coder most of my working life and java=vomit) and a half baked API missing critical things (for my application)
Ill still keep Cubase going for these last couple of projects and I have many from over the years so it will force me to take what is good an move on.
Ive noticed too that the users on the forum seemed to have changed over the last 15 years and these days, I barely get responses…a lot of the brains trust is no longer here and basic issues I have just dont get solved or workarounds that I cringe at…sorry I just cant justify paying good money and the basics not working…I do music as art as well as paid work for others. The DAW must be an extension of me now…not make me a slave to it.

Ive just downloaded Reaper…and the actions are super…yeah its a bit hacky but Dan Worral made a couple of things clear aobut it and workflow can be made to just about anything fairly easily…now to see if I can bare to be without some of the beautiful things like Control Room as Im not sure where that is but I use Totalmix so I can always use that (and still use this template to do the recordings/cues etc and the drop the tracks into Reaper)

Anyway…Ill still try and work through the issues as I finish these projects over the next couple of months. Many many thanks especially to @Martin.Jirsak for so much help over the time (and so many others)

Cheers

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What are the basic things that actually do not work ? :thinking:

Make your own experience with it, but well… Been here, done that : workflow is precisely why I returned to Cubase after a three years period trying to get Reaper working as expected, endlessly trying to script and theme, again and again, to no avail, and life is short. YMMV, of course, but still…

I still have its licence, though, but will use it again only the day Steinberg will definitely drop the VST 2.4 compatibility…

To each his own, of course : keep us informed about how things will go…

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Here’s a few things that don’t work and have been bugged for years, not sure if they are basic, but they were a part of my workflow and are broken.

Direct offline processing is broken, a simple Reverb + Reverse ‘Favourite’ spits out a jumbled mess of an audio file, tested on macos, windows, and on 10 different setups, including fresh installs over the last 6 or so cubase editions.

They introduced a bug 2 years ago where the mpex algorithm for pitch & timestretch got limited to 11 semitones, instead of the 16 it has always been at for the last 20+ years, it’s frustrating to not even be able to at least hit an octave, i use pitch and stretch with mpex on the daily.

There are other bugs with the Direct Offline Processing which cause audio to disappear when doing or undoing certain processes.

Importing tracks from another project results in tracks being routed to incorrect destinations, like instead of a track going to the Stereo Out, it end up going to a random sidechain instead. This is a newly introduced bug in the last few years.

VCA’s - on loading a project the VCA’s disable all the automation of all tracks that are part of the VCA’s, every time you load a project, you need to find all those automation lanes and re-enable them.

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If you’re not using midi and mainly mixing then I think Reaper will suit you , once you set it up how you want it to.

I’ve used Reaper since V1.x and Cubase since 1986 . Reaper is great once you set your workflow but… it’s a big but… it can take a lot of research into scripts, extensions, mouse modifiers etc etc to find what you want.
RME total mix will negate the control room so no probems there, there’s also no ASIO direct monitoring in Reaper, that means you have to do your moitoring either through reaper at very low latency OR you use total mix but REaper wont control Total mix like Cubase can with the ASIO direct monitoring.

The GUI has always bothered me about Reaper, I never found a consistant theme I liked so generally used the default. Not being able to resize the Mixer width channels still annoys me, they need to sort that so it’s like Cubase IMHO.

Anyway, good luck with the journey.

M

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I would never consider myself as part of the ‘brain-trust’ on here. I’m more likely to come and just look for answers. It may well be that I have, in the past, used your posts for that without feeling the need to engage with them.

I use a small fraction of what Cubase can do in a home studio and I do get the opportunity to work with and for other musicians too.

It’s a sad day when someone with such longevity decides they’ve had enough.
Good luck

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There are 2 things that pushed me over…

  1. The Mackie control does not get any feedback from mixconsole if the user eg clicks a different track. What that means is that any PLE etc no longer work.
  2. After years of developing workflow, all the rest is in place and works BUT Im told that even if they bothered to fix it, would not be for C12 and Im not changing atm

THIS is the most critical things…broken but no chance to recover
Here is a post about it…related to it if interested. I was really hoping to go “next level” and add more enjoyment != mouse clicks

  1. There is no actual macro language ie for the UI that allows users to do basic stuff. You can kind of hack it using midi/generic remotes etc but some of the address handles are missing and even if it were in the api to program, if its not in the generic or remote editor I absolutely refuse now, to waste any time programming basic requirements and if Steinberg no longer have staff that understand that automation and the ability to easily implement (OR finished) then Im not going to argue, they obviously dont know what they dont know…but after 36 years…muscle memory is the magic and when doing an automation pass, your eyes are closed and you feel it…no need for edits or mouse generally. As mentioned, they wont even consider exposing the window handles for 3rd party ie Autohotkey

Yeah and they took away simple but vital parts of it like More/wet dry mix

Mainly live recorded music…it used to be 90% midi and was good for that but as you get older it seems live connection with people produces a magic that midi is so dry and lifeless but its great for sketching out stuff. I just play everything in now as well…maybe a minor tweak but generally just retake if its not good…took a while to get enough controllers…not 100% Reaper but its free to try and like $60/225. If its good Ill be happy to pay the $225
I dont do midi orchestration anymore either…great quartet can do so much and the live interaction once again…so good.

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my thoughts exactly. And it (the GUI) just isnt a priority with the REAPER team.

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I def dont want this to be a Reaper shootout…already there are so many things like track management, bussing and grouping, drag and drop cable for routing to multiple channels at once and I have only just started iin Reaper. The GUI and colours arent much different to Cubase though

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but as mentioned, it seems, just like mixing where you have wide/normal/zoom when monitoring, this has not made it to Reaper nor Cubase but the door is closed with Cubase. I looked at Studio One but its just a toy…Id swear its the same coder to Cubase but there is nothing new or better except for a couple of def non change items.
Based on the editing levels above, I just dont know if its possible to emulate the inspector/edit window in the same way but I def cant keep going with Cubase unless they become more ethical in eg fixing bugs for older versions that should not have been there in the first place

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Isn’t that shortcoming inherent in the Mackie protocol? I believe that’s one of the advantages to Eucon.

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Yes, always been the case.

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If I only just recorded and mixed I’d probably use REAPER exclusively. But there’s just so much good stuff in Cubase for writing and arranging, and I can’t be bothered using multiple DAWs anymore so it’s strictly Cubase for me. As for the interface, it is what it is in REAPER. Default with customization is the way to go in my book, but it’s certainly its weakest point. For flexibility it’s hard to beat. If you put in the time you can basically make REAPER be anything you want. For me personally, I found I wanted to spend the time creating instead, but for someone really after that certain workflow, it might be just the ticket.

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Have to strongly disagree…unless you have a link etc…unless we are talking about something else.

Im not sure how…maybe Im missing something but I did hardware control surface as a job for a while…its up to the daw to write back…it writes back when a banking msg is received because cubase sends it…when UI is selected it should be identical.

@GlennO
@m.c

Im 99.97% on this…its what I def had to get Live to do for a control surface

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I still do midi but probs 10%…as mentioned its just played in.
Arrangement wise its much more fluid and fun to use Live in a group and just migrate the bones but we are all at diff points in the journey
Sad thing is Im not after anything exotic…as far as UI/UX its just focus…I dont expect steiny to go gestural…just basic stuff like the provided program working…fully to the spec

Yeah thats def my point…I want to stop the merry go round of dead ends and just create but with at least basic focus tools…hehe like goto first/end track in a project with a button press or jump to a folder/group when I press its index instead of scrolling clicking and all that computer based crap I am just sooo so over. Muscle mem makes it enjoyable…

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I hear ya, Reaper is brilliant. I use Cubase as my main DAW purely as I prefer to operate within a suite of tools, and it’s generally better on the eye providing your desktop resolution/scaling suits what SB have optimised it to.

I really do like the Cubase MIDI Remote features too, as it allows quick mapping - even though it needs a bit more development, but like much else it has been dropped like a stone. And what’s worse it was predictable too.

If I want to quickly record something or try out a new plugin/instrument I will load up Reaper before Cubase as it’s much quicker to load and doesn’t require me to set a new folder for a project I know i’ll never save. And I think that’s quite telling in itself as to what I naturally ‘prefer’ to use.

Pretty sure i’ll move across at some point. I don’t want to, but like you there’s a lot of bugs that don’t get fixed and still Cubase is very lacking in regards to simple stuff like altering colours, fonts and sizes to suit your eye, it’s entirely at the mercy of Steinberg and what they decide to do.

How the hell there’s no kind of custom toolbars or buttons that can fire off macros in Cubase is beyond me too, There’s not many pro grade software I use that doesn’t offer that - it’s arcane relying on users to setup and remember multiple key/commands.

There’s also the fact that Cubase looks like it’s back on a yearly paid cycle after it was suggested that x.5 releases wouldn’t be a thing in future which lead many people to believe that we’d see a 2 year pay cycle, allowing for more bug fixes as demand for new features would lessen.

Having a few conversations on here in the past month has made me really consider this and whether it’s the right model for me still.

It really doesn’t help that there’s a fair share of uncertainty and lack of trust in the audio world. There’s shills out there, different methods of squeezing money out of users, and the more it continues the more Reaper becomes attractive due to their pricing, modelling and response to users via constant updates.

But Cockos/Reaper is a mainly a two man project I believe?, you have to wonder what would happen should an alien capture one of them. Steinberg have demonstrated the ability to remain relevant and one of the top DAWs for many decades - losing a key member of staff is not going to affect the end users in a similar way.

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This isn’t an airport

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? Sorry @djpat im missing what you are saying?

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Might I recommend not clicking in the first place?. Maybe you don’t work with templates?. But I seldom have to click on anything these days. It is all done with muscle memory on two iPads running Meta Grid Pro custom made to my workflow and template.
When I am selecting a track in the MixConsole, it’s as simple as pressing a labelled/icon button. Not only does this use muscle memory but pressing a button over clicking a mouse can, with the use of programs like Bome MIDI Translator, change visibility config, filter channels, solo/mute selected channel, display plugins for selected channel as well as display a custom grid for that particular instrument with faders for sends, plugs, level and buttons to bypass sends and plugs. All this at the same time as firing off a PLE.

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We are on two entirely diff planets…you might need to actually read the posts and make informed comment else…hmm

I am using Bome for gestural input

Im using hardware so you dont even really look at what you are doing. Like I said, have been using it for 36 years and programmed templates, control surfaces etc.

I NEVER have to click on a track…that is to prove there is an issue with the process which in turn affects all the PLE

Everything is templated in 8x8 group matrixes

A double click on a left or right bank button (hardware and is meant to) send and select the first/last track

A long hold on a select (1-8) resets the visibility configuration, jumps to the folder ie vis 1 = Vocal group
So it opens the folder and selects the first track using PLE

So the issue is that it looks like everything is working but has never sent the updates to the controller and when you eg move a volume, its still parked at the previous bank

PS I hate touch display and will never use them again after a 22" touch was trialled for the mixer…happy that you like what you have… This BCF is still working from 2002…ipads = vomit…except for onsong

How many times are you doing fader riding/automation according to feel with 4 or five faders at a time using an ipad screen? Wow that is brave

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Maybe Steinberg can employ you so you can help them with coding to address and fix these issues. :+1:

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would love to…but Im pretty sure all the guys who started have left a long time ago so reading back through others stuff…hmm. Could it be that hard? Its actually a dependency anyway

As is now clear…fix mackie and put expose window handles and Id be happy to stay…and get some of these Reaper features into Cubase too lol

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