Aleatoric Notation - Lutoslawski

[maronid]

Hello!

I am wondering how far are we from notating aleatoric textures in Dorico?
Something like the Lutoslawski style with the wavy lines. (see attachment)

Well, playing back would be wonderful but the most important is the notation. Of course
a lot of issues have to be addressed (mostly handling of time) but I guess a lot of contemporary music
composers would be interested!

[Paolo_T]

In part, it can already be done.

If a line style was added, with height covering the whole staff, and white/paper instead of black, we could also simulate the cut-away, with the length of the box automatically extending until necessary. The thick line/box should cover any note under it. Notes would be needed to set the length of the aleatoric/hidden passage.

The wavy continuation line should be moved to front, to go over the white thick line/box.

Maybe the developers are already working on something more direct, but I would already be happy with this solution.

(Oh, and we would need the MTF Improviso font to complete the example; shame it has not yet been released for Dorico).

Paolo

[klafkid]

I lately finished a piece in Dorico for choir, using this as a basic principle. My notation was heavily influenced by Lutosławski.
It’s actually not too hard. I wish there would be a way to do cut-out style, but it looks still ok. When cut-out comes, I will surely rework the score though.

EDIT: swapped picture Bc the one I had has a bad engraving. I am in a train right now, so I only could get a picture via phone.

[jesele]

Looks great Sascha.

Jesper

[jesele]

I found a rather good way, using lines with repeatable objects.
Made an 11x22 px white SVG for cut-away and with an added black rectangle for
the arrow line. Also a white SVG with a triangle for the ending.
The problem is that since Dorico only draws a full repeatable object I had to set the repeat offset in the repeatable symbols dialog to a very small number. Can make scrolling slow if you have many of them.
I wish Dorico could end the line at precise points, even if in the middle of a repeatable object.

I know, makes no sense to have cut-away on a solo piece. ; - )


Jesper

Cut Away.dorico.zip (571 KB)
Edit: With the line set to attach to barline, no further editing should be needed.

[seaguin]

I’m just bumping this up to emphasize the desire among Dorico users for more flexible graphic options for contemporary scores!! Currently using Finale for this kind of stuff

[maronidis]

I’ve updated to Dorico 6, and it’s really fantastic! I think with the cutaways, the challenge of notating aleatoric textures in the style of Lutoslawski is almost solved. One thing that would be great to have is the option to make the horizontal extension lines—whether wavy or straight—along with custom-placed repeat signs, and have them reflect in the parts as well. Maybe this feature is already available?

[mducharme]

You can make wavy lines in the line tool which should work for extension lines.

[maronidis]

Yes, indeed but alignment in the middle of the staff-lines is not super intuitive. A solution thought for now!

[Christian_R]

@maronidis

alignment in the middle of the staff-lines is not super intuitive.

Hi @maronidis,
there is a Property to position horizontal lines Inside the Staff. I tried as an exercise, to reproduce your example:

Dorico file example:

luto test-cutaways repeats lines.dorico (1.5 MB)

[maronidis]

Thank you so much for this. I am though having the following problems

1. Seems we cannot have pixel precision on the length of the lines in engrave mode
2. When I try to enter a new line on the bottom staff to link to the next event it jumps on the top staff
3. Things are not consistent between score and parts.

luto test-cutaways repeats lines2.dorico (1.3 MB)

[maronidis]

by the way, there should be an option to move back/front the coordination lines. Some times they have to hide behind other items.

[Christian_R]

Hi @maronidis, yes it is need some manual adjustments.
Spontaneously I made a video to show my attempts

Dorico 6- horizontal connection lines vs cutaways

And here the Dorico file example:

luto test-cutaways repeats lines 3.dorico (1.4 MB)

[maronidis]

Thank you so much for the video Christian. Yes, it is possible, I am hoping for a more intuitive implementation in next updates!