Hi,
New to Dorico, I was a Finale user.
I’m having playback issues using the Atomic Big Band Horns sound library. Some notes will drop, others hang on too long or play a bit out of time. It happens in the same spot each time.
I believe the issue is related to how I have Atomic Big Band Horns installed and set up. When I create a new file using HALion Sonic for sounds I don’t have the same issue, I just loose the sounds and playback settings with ABB.
Thanks,
Dave
Welcome to the forum, Dave. Can you cut your troublesome project down to just a few bars for one or two instruments that still reproduce the problem, and then attach it here? I don’t have access to this library myself, but I think my colleague @John_at_Steinberg does.
Thanks, dspreadbury.
I can’t get the file size anywhere near 4 MB, even compressed and with a file of just 5 parts for two measures. I can post the file on a Google Drive and share it, if that will help.
Curiously, as I was deleting some things to find a good measure or two example to post it seemed as if some of the usual problems disappeared until I added a part or measure back in.
Dave
It’ll be the audio engine data (the saved state for the Atomic Big Band plug-in, specifically) that makes the project so large, I’m afraid. But yes, a link to a cloud file service would do the trick.
Here are links to three different files.
This file is the smallest, just a couple of measures and 5 parts. You can hear some of the trombone parts drop out in the second measure.
This is a larger file that has many playback issues with notes dropping out or hanging on too long.
And this file I created a new project from scratch and simply copied and pasted everything into the new file with HALion Sonic for the sound library. The playback issues are no longer present.
If I open my original project (with Atomic Big Band set up) on my iPad app and play it back there the playback issues aren’t present there either, for what it’s worth.
So my best guess is that this has something to do with how I have set up Atomic Big Band or Kontakt player, but I haven’t been able to find anything on the web that helps clean it up.
Thanks!
Dave
I’ll check your files and get back to you. I’m just sorting out an issue with my installation in Kontakt 8 first, sorry!
Hi, its Ryan from Straight Ahead samples I am happy to help with any playback issues that I can. I downloaded and tried the two ABB version of the files above, and aside from a couple smart-delay related anomlies in the tenor 1 and 2 I did not have any issues. Keep in mind a couple things, if Smart Delay causes anything to have and extraneous expression, meaning scoops, or the note is too long or short, or there is some extra inflection, this is easily corrected by appling the “vanilla” playback technique to the note in question and/or the note before or after. You must also have an empty measure at the end in Dorico for playback to complete, but of course this can be removed for print if desired. Maybe you were having an issue with the audio engine. I don’t know much about that side of things.
Thanks, Ryan. Since I have your attention, maybe you can answer another questions about setting up Atomic Big Band with Dorico that may or may not be related.
When following the instructions in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea5MYeiwKxk) even when using Kontakt 7 (I think I went ahead with Kontakt 8 on the example I posted) it doesn’t look the same in the rack view. On the video there’s a Smart Delay Sync item in the view that looks like this (sorry for the blurry image, it’s a screen grab from the video above):
On mine, however, it looks like this:
So turning on Smart Delay involves me individually checking it on each instrument instead of all at once. I’m not sure why it looks different, maybe I’ve loaded it in incorrectly?
Keep in mind a couple things, if Smart Delay causes anything to have and extraneous expression, meaning scoops, or the note is too long or short, or there is some extra inflection, this is easily corrected by appling the “vanilla” playback technique to the note in question and/or the note before or after.
The playback issues I’m having are present whether or not Smart Delay is set, so I don’t think it’s related to that.
Maybe you were having an issue with the audio engine.
That might be the case. I did try to follow the setup video above to get Kontakt and Dorico working together properly, but could it be related to that?
Thanks,
Dave
Since Kontakt 8 was released we needed to update the Smart Delay Sync multiscript to also appear in version 8’s correct folders . It should now be updated if you download the latest version from Pulse. If you are having the same issue in Real-Time and Smart Delay there is somthing else going on that probably does not have to do with any kontakt or Dorico setup per se. Audio samples could give a better clue.
Ryan,
Thanks for the heads up about the Smart Delay update. I only recently purchased Atomic Big Band and didn’t realize that an update had happened so soon after I purchased it. The Smart Delay plugin now looks the same in Kontakt.
Audio samples could give a better clue.
Here’s an audio example of what’s happening (with Smart Delay off):
Here’s a screenshot of what should be heard at that moment:
And here’s the Dorico file with just those 4 measures:
Thanks so much for the help.
Dave
Is the issue in question the whole notes in the trombones in measure 2 not being held long enough?
If so, try applying the vanilla pt the same hidden way as you have the fp-crec
Is the issue in question the whole notes in the trombones in measure 2 not being held long enough?
Yes, that is one of the issues I’ve been having.
If so, try applying the vanilla pt the same hidden way as you have the fp-crec
The audio playback render I posted was created with Real Time playback. Is there something else I need to do for “vanilla” playback technique here?
Thanks,
Dave
Its kind of strange that it happened in Real Time but Vanilla can also work in that mode. If you still have issues sometimes it can be fixed editing the played durations in the midi piano roll view to be slightly longer or shorter.
Ryan,
I think I’m missing what you mean by “Vanilla.” The audio example I posted was in Real Time playback. How is that different from the “Vanilla” playback?
The hidden “fp-cresc” were my attempt to experiment with the ABB sample, but audio glitches I get happen whether or not I have them there.
Thanks,
Dave
Hi, all.
I’m still trying out some different things to see if I can pinpoint the problems and try out some of the potential solutions that have already been suggested. Here’s another screenshot example where the lead trombone gets dropped.
Here’s the audio export.
And the Dorico file.
The issue here seems to be related to the trumpet parts, maybe because they are playing the exact same note that the lead trombone plays on the tied 8th to quarter note? If I delete all the trumpet parts, the audio plays back just fine. Here’s what that sounds like.
If you still have issues sometimes it can be fixed editing the played durations in the midi piano roll view to be slightly longer or shorter.
I don’t think this will be an eventual solution for the notes that are dropping. In the example I am showing in this post there is a note that happens on count 4. The note in the piano roll is already bumped up against count 4 and if I lengthen it in the piano roll it deletes that quarter note at the end of the measure. Other areas where I have similar issues may also have notes that follow the drop out problem.
Thanks again for everyone’s attention and suggestions. Hopefully I’ll figure this out before too long. I’m starting to get more used to Dorico and do enjoy the Atomic Big Band sounds, just want to get the playback issues solved so that when this new chart is complete I can put together the best possible demo.
Dave
So I happened to watch this video and now I understand what you mean by “vanilla” playback.
Where can I find a list of all the techniques along with how to make them work with Dorico? For example, since I have the full version of Atomic Big Band Horns I should have access to both a fall and a long fall. How do I get Dorico and ABBH to playback with a long fall if I want one? Are there other “hidden” playback techniques like vanilla playback and how do I get them to work in Dorico?
BTW, I completed my composition a while ago and put together a demo version by exporting each individual instrument into a DAW. That removed almost all the playback glitches, but there were still a few of the strange errors that I mentioned above. I am hoping that it was just something that I accidentally did when I set up the original file or may have been related to pasting in MIDI created with Band-in-a-Box to generate rhythm section and solos for playback.
Thanks,
Dave
Hi Dave, playback via Dorico has not worked well for me. I’m using the updated version with the supplied playback template and expression map, but reproducible glitches render the library of little use at this time. I have my fingers crossed that there will be another update in the New Year.
Same here
That’s too bad. I was kind of hoping that I screwed something up in my setup and that if I could just figure it out I could get playback to work as it does on the demonstration videos.
I still would like to see a list of all the playing techniques that Atomic Big Band Horns is capable of an how to get Dorico to play them back. I find it strange that one wasn’t provided when I purchased it.
Dave
This PDF was included with the original version, but may have been left out of the updates.
Dynamics:
Dorico’s default dynamic markings will send with velocity and expression appropriately mapped.
Basic Articulations
Natural - (will play legato) Legato/Slur -smooth and connected Staccato - short
Staccatissmo - very short
Accent - louder
Marcato - louder and short Tongued - detached
Jazz ornaments:
Rip - a fast,gliss-like run just before and up to the note
Scoop - a bend from under just before the target note
Fall - a bend downward just after the note
Doit - a short gliss-like run or bend up after the note
Shake - a brass effect rapidly alternating up a partial (saxophones will play a whole step trill)
Plop - (flop) and fast gliss-like run just before and down to the target note
Standard Ornaments:
Whole Step Trill Half Step Trill
Additional Playing Techniques may be hidden by entering in parenthesis:
gliss/runs
fp
fp-crec.
fp-crec.-dim.
long fall
vanilla [insures that a “plain” note is performed in case too much automatic styling applies or other unwanted affect in Smart Delay.]
Brass Mutes:
Cup
Cup (open
Striaght
Harmon (stem out) Harmon (stem in) Harmon (stem extended) Bucket
Hat, open (o) and close (+)
Plunger open (o) and close (+)
Dorico- Atomic Big Band! The Horns.pdf (76.9 KB)
