Can anyone explain how Nuendo handles ATMOS on PC?

As I’ve come to understand, the ATMOS renderer does not work on PC. So this lead me to Nuendo which states I can use Nuendo for ATMOS mixing. However, things are still a bit unclear. This video states that a 128 channel device is needed? 6.1 Nuendo 11 Integrated VST Dolby Atmos Renderer - YouTube

How does a person with 7.1.4 and 28 I/O get into ATMOS on PC?

I don’t think you need that device at all. I’m not sure why it’s in that video. You need 12 output channels to feed your monitoring path and everything else is virtual.

Watch the official videos from Steinberg.

That’s only partially correct, AFAIK. Without Dolby’s own software, we can’t do Dolby Binaural exports for headphones (… which is most likely the most relevant delivery format for 3D audio at the moment).

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I find the missing binaural rendering along with the inability to export to a consumer format of Atmos (DD+JOC, MP4 etc.) from Nuendo makes it close to shameful for them to advertise Dolby Atmos integration.

Those two things should certainly be base features for those of us working with Atmos. Not being able to check quality control on consumer devices means that Nuendo is not a complete package for Atmos mixing professionally.

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Don’t blame Steinberg for it though, it’s Dolby holding producers back. Avid/Pro Tools is in the same boat as far as I know.

I don’t have enough info on this so it is pure speculation/theory. But Dolby does not have a renderer vst for windows. I believe this is due to the windows audio structure to be… um cumbersome. Isn’t that the entire reason ASIO was developed? Which leads us back to Steinberg, who is also holding back lol. It’s a bit mind boggling that Steinberg does not fully utilize the ASIO infrastructure for what it is, which is a fully shareable infrastructure able to be shared across multiple devices on the same machine AND the ability to literally route anything to anything.

But here we are, not a single driver written by Steinberg does any of that functionality. Even on their top tier interface, they can’t get loopback to function let alone ASIO functions as mentioned.

Hi Kewk,

I am sorry, but I do not understand your comments around ASIO.

I am using Asio4all to aggregate two audio devices (8x outputs each) to audition my stuff in Nuendo directly on a 7.1.4 speaker system. There is no Atmos encoding and decoding. Asio4all is one of the few ASIO drivers supporting audio devices of different brands.

To my understanding, this is not quite the point here. Perhaps I am wrong.

Here it is more about QA’ing your Dolby Atmos export against a Dolby Atmos decoder (AVR etc) or a binaural export for headphones. And this is not possible as of today (as MatthiasNYC stated already).

The Dolby Atmos Production Suite (DAPS, MacOS only) allows exports in Dolby Atmos (DD+) or binaural (stereo WAV). Besides DAPS, there is a Dolby Atmos Encoder for Windows. It is called Dolby Encoding Engine (DEE). It is purely command line based.

Runs quite OK and can even encode to Dolby Atmos in Dolby-TrueHD. I evaluated it for some time. Binaural Encoding does require a special DLL Upon request, it was not given to me. Perhaps because it was an evaluation license only.

Downsight of DEE is its price. From what I know, it is about $500 per year.

A good solution would be to use (extend) the Nuendo-built-in Dolby Atmos plugin. It already allows to select a downmix to 7.1 (not 100% sure) or 5.1 or even Stereo. The GUI looks very similar as in Dolby Atmos Production Suite with the one key difference, that there is the option “Binaural” to be selected.

Perhaps Steinberg and Dolby find a solution to fill that gap in Nuendo.

LG, Juergi

We’re not discussing decoding at all right now. My ASIO comments are also not about ASIO4ALL, as IMO it is garbage. It’s a nice way to aggregate if you have no other choices but the latency it introduces has been less than favorable to me, and many others.

What I was saying, was that ASIO is capable of WAY more than Steinberg actually does in their own drivers. All functionality I spoke of is done using ASIO Pro Link. Within that system I can share ASIO between various devices and programs. Each device and/or application gets 64 channels to route any way you like.

However, it does not act as an aggregate of devices, only ASIO. I cannot connect 2 interfaces using ASIO Pro Link but I can connect 2 DAW’s that require ASIO.

Dolby does have a renderer, and it’s included in Nuendo. Whether or not it’s called or defined as “VST” or “ASIO” is really irrelevant. Clearly the native Dolby renderer is able to get all 128 channels of Atmos and successfully assign those to objects and beds.

I don’t think ASIO has anything to do with this. This is just Dolby being Dolby and making some functionality available on some platforms and not others, and sometimes requiring dedicated software.

Not really sure what the rest of the ASIO conversation has to do with it.

This is inaccurate. Whatever Nuendo is using, is not the Dolby renderer. Feel free to go to Dolby’s site and see that they do not offer a windows version of the renderer. Furthermore, they very superficially reference it as “Nuendo Renderer for Dolby Atmos”.

What does ASIO have to do with this? Can you do anything in Nuendo with ATMOS without ASIO?

Seems pretty logical to me that Steinberg is holding back functionality to sell more copies of Nuendo to Windows users, while Dolby works out there ASIO issues. 100% if they ever release the renderer on Windows, it will be using ASIO.

It’s not the Dolby Renderer, it’s a Dolby Renderer and it will render from Atmos master files. ASIO is not involved as you are not leaving the native program to render. It’s internal as a VST plugin.

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It’s not inaccurate.

Dolby offers several different renderers. You even quote the name of the one included in Nuendo, and it has “renderer” in the name. For a good reason. Because it’s a renderer. And we use it on Windows. That’s all there is to say about that specific point.

If you’re talking about a specific renderer like VV1 says the you should be specific when you talk about it. Whichever it is it has a name. Use it.

That makes no sense. If it works on OSX because of coreaudio then Steinberg could implement it on OSX and offer customers that and still sell the copies for Windows, because as a Nuendo user on Windows I have no choice. I’ll upgrade regardless of whether or not Nuendo has more Atmos functionality on OSX. I’m not going to not upgrade because OSX users get more, or I’ll switch to a Mac and still upgrade. It simply makes no difference to a Windows user.

And ‘no’, I really don’t see how ASIO is limiting here. Just because Nuendo uses ASIO doesn’t mean it’s the bottleneck for Atmos functionality, and it also doesn’t mean that Steinberg is the only one that can ‘fix’ it.

This really does seem like entirely Dolby’s decision(s).

ASIO is a protocol for communication with audio hardware, whereas Dolby Atmos Renderer is just a software component transforming Atmos objects and beds into a given monitoring configuration (discrete channels). So, these two things are completely unrelated. For instance, when you are rendering your mix (in offline mode, not real-time) then ASIO is not used at all (no playback involved).

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That’s interesting that you guys believe ASIO has nothing to do with the renderer. The renderer, which renders ATMOS audio in real time to your speakers and your masters, and/or downmixes. The renderer of which renders the audio before it is then delivered to the speakers via an audio driver. Said audio driver must be selected before the renderer will even function within the Dolby renderer preferences. In short, you cannot even use the renderer without selecting an audio driver.

You are probably referring to the setup for an external renderer: External Dolby Atmos Renderer Setup Dialog
This is an option for an external renderer running as a network service. However, Nuendo has also an internal renderer plugin where you do not need to set up an audio driver: Renderer for Dolby Atmos Plug-in Panel

I understand the thread is getting long and vering off so I don’t expect everyone to read every thing here, but we were specifically discussing Dolby ATMOS Renderer not the Nuendo Renderer, as they are 2 different things and actually lends weight to my ASIO theory.

The reason you do not setup the audio driver for the renderer in Nuendo is due to the fact that it’s native and relying on what Nuendo uses, which will be ASIO. You’re just changing the location of where ASIO is being set.

I am very confident in saying that in any and every scenario you can think up on Windows and ATMOS, ASIO will be part of it. However, I cannot say this for fact at the moment. The idea that rendering out a master does not require ASIO, is moot because indirectly it does. You are not going to render something out if you did not mix it or hear it first. You must first get to the point of rendering a master, which you can’t without ASIO.

Ok, can you tie the pieces together and clearly state what the signal chain is between devices, and what functionality it is you’re missing?

No, there’s no point. That is not what any of this is about. Given your engagement, I’d expect for you to understand this. I’ve not once asked for any help of which you are now attempting to fix. I’d just let this thread die at this point.

There’s a fundamental flaw in most humans that makes them use assumptions to guide them to what they think a point is regardless of the information that is clearly in front of them. So, questions like yours tend to happen and leaves people like me very uninterested in continuing conversation.

Nice attitude. Best of luck in the future.

Hey Kewk,

you seem to mix a lot of stuff up. It is fine since you are not fully aware of the workflow yet.
But, please let us explain it to you a bit further ;-)…

The Dolby Atmos Renderer is a standalone software which is only on OSX (as you know and understand). This leads to the fact that this is not yet possible to run on any PC at the moment!

The Dolby Atmos Renderer VST Plugin inside of Nuendo is a VST solution which does all the needed “rendering” to produce a proper MASTER (ADM BWAV) within the Mixer of Nuendo. It is a VST Plugin that gets its audio stream within the Mixer of Nuendo - so ASIO is for sure a part of whole the audio system but not as in any driver or external input/ output at this stage.

Currently this VST Renderer is NOT able to create a MP4 (as the standalone version is) as well as create a Dolby based binaural mix. We all hope this will come in future updates of the VST Renderer.
If you need to have any MP4 or a Dolby binaural mix you need to export your mix as BWAV from Nuendo and import this into the standalone version > there you can export all you need.
Of course you need a OSX system as well as the Dolby Atmos Production Suite.
So, to create either a DOLBY binaural mix or an MP4 you will need the real standalone DOLBY ATMOS RENDERER at this point! All this comes down to Dolby which just didn’t include these functions into the VST version… yet… lets hope for the best!

Btw, Atmos mixing has nothing to do with MP4, or binaural mixing… a proper binaural mix could be created by other plugins like DearVR Monitor and so on… the MP4 export from inside of Nuendo would be a nice feature, but still this is not what atmos is about …

all set? Cool :slight_smile: !

To answere to this: you don’t need any extreme hardware when you stay within Nuendo and use the VST Renderer.

BUT - if you still like to use the standalone Dolby Atmos Renderer and NOT the VST version you would need something like a DANTE card (128 i/o) or a MADI card on your system as well as on the OSX system hosting the standalone renderer. Look at it more like a hardware box with 128 i/o you need to send audio too … sounds expensive? It is! Thats why the good people of Steinberg (together with Dolby) came up with this VST Plugin that lets you do it all withtin Nuendo - cool eh!

all the best
happy mixing :slight_smile:

Another very basic video to see and understand how to do it inside Nuendo:

You might check his stuff, very basic and very easy to follow and understand the idears …

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