Can I do sfz p?

I want to do a dynamic that is: sfz p < f

I’ve tried it in the dynamics popover, it will do the sfz cresc f, but it won’t include the p.
The Combined Dynamics in the panel doesn’t offer sfz.
It seems to only allow sfz or p, but not both.

Any way to do it properly? Thanks!

Your best bet is to enter the sfz, then go to note input, set a high rhythmic grid resolution (like 32nd notes), and enter the p< dynamic one click to the right. Or enter the sfz one click to the left.

You can always move them around in engrave mode.

Technically sfz is an accent rather than a dynamic. But you should be able to attach the sfz to the note and then start your p < f one sixty-fourth position later (if you temporarily adjust the rhythmic grid).

(Seems Dan beat me to it.)

I am not quite sure, but is sfz p < f any different from sfp < f, actually?

“sfz” (sforzando, sforzato) is in most cases the more accentuated version of “sf” that for most people translates to subito forte.
But all this is highly sophisticated and different in every epoch and differs from composer to composer. If you want to open pandoras box you can also include rf rfz and fp (sffz anyone?) in the comparison.

If you doubt, Beethoven’s right, always!

There is one big difference between sfz p >< f and sfp < f, which is that in 50 years of reading and playing scores I don’t think I have ever seen sfp (or sp) “in the wild”, compared with sfz which is commonplace.

I’m sure somebody can tell me where sfp has actually been used and that it’s more than an some music dictionary editor’s invention - but I’m just sayin’ :wink:

I might be wrong, but I actually do not know a musical term called “subito forte”.
sfz traslates to “sforzato”, which is an actual italian word.
So sfz-p makes very much sense to me, and is often seen in literature (classical, pop, jazz) - though I can’t remember seeing (or writing) “sfp” - if, then a “sub. f”.
But I’m sure the guys from Dorico have done more research on this than I ever did or will do in the rest of my life.
Still, enabeling the possibility to have a “sfzp” wouldn’t be a misstake.

I’m not at my computer, but isn’t there a way to get what you want by using Properties to add the p at the end of the sfz?

The font is different. It’s italic, but quite thinner.

I thought sfz was an abbreviation of sforzando…?

Dear Sadhaka,
Sforzato and sforzando mean actually the same (for music performers)

Well there you go - I had never heard the term Sforzato!

Thanks Mark

I never crossed it in France either…

Not that I speak Italian, but it sounds as if one is a past participle and the other a present participle of the same verb.

Indeed ^^

Almost. Sforzato is the past participle, but sforzando is the gerund. https://en.bab.la/conjugation/italian/sforzare

But “musical Italian” doesn’t bother much with grammar! I think “sforzante” would be more grammatical than “sforzando”, but nobody ever uses it.

Very interesting guys!

I’d like to bring this up again as a feature request - could we have sfz p in the dynamics popover please?

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The last version of Bravura font is v1.39 features the sfzp dynamic.

image

Till now it seems like the last version of Dorico 3.5.12.1066 still doesn’t handle it yet, but it’s there on the SMuFL Specification page : (v1.4/ Beta version 14 February 2021) Dynamics · Standard Music Font Layout

U+E53A
dynamicSforzatoPiano
Sforzato-piano

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I entered sfz below A, then p below D, in Engrave mode, you can move p to fit with sfz.