I have a montage at 48kHz with audio recorded in from my analogue chain and plugins running on the clips. This audio has then been trimmed and faded into the running order.
have used RX10 to convert these recorded files to 44.1Khz and used the Create Customised Audio Montage Duplicate to duplicate the montage at 44,1kHz.
This works well other then the fact the the audio in the duplicate hasn’t carried the trim information across to the entire audio file is visibly in the montage and the markers that were linked in the original montage are now in the wrong places.
I was chatting to Justin P on the FB forum and he ran a test which appeared to work fine. The only difference being that his audio was imported rather than recorded in.
I did a test with imported audio and it behaved strangely restoring some of the audio I had trimmed out and moving it on the timeline.
If the 48k source files in the source montage are the exact same length and otherwise the same files as the downsampled 44.1k files you are pointing the source montage to for the Customized Audio Montage Duplicate process, all your montage edits, clip trimming, fades, markers etc. should be 100% identical to your source montage.
I tested this with a 96k montage I was working on today. All 14 songs had the heads and tails trimmed up as needed, and custom fade in & out added to each song/clip, with some spacing between the clips.
Though I don’t normally do this, I converted all the un-edited 96k source files to 44.1k (using RX Batch Processor), did the Customized Audio Montage Duplicate process pointing to the new 44.1k files, and the resulting 44.1k montage was identical to the 96k montage aside from the sample rate of course.
Yep… a file is a file. I was clutching at straws trying to think what could possibly be different and the fact that they are in different directories potentially.
Thanks Justin, I have checked the audio and it is the same length (down to thousandth of a second I can see in RX anyway!).
I have updated to 12.0.30 and the problem persists.
Here are some screen grabs. You can see the track length has changed in the 44.1k version.
I have zoomed in at the start of the montage so you can see how the audio has changed.
This looks like your file has not been correctly resampled from 48k to 44.1k. I say so because when watching the waveform, there doesn’t seem to be any missing parts, and there is no strange offset.
If you open a 48k file in the audio editor, and the same file in 44.k, do you see the same lengths?
I don’t think it is a sample rate conversion problem as I just made a duplicate montage and set the directory to be where the 48k files are and the same problem occurred where the trimming of the files was discarded.
Well, if I look only at the 1st title only, I see lengths of 3.42 in 48k and 3.31 in 44.1k
If you play the 44.1 k montage, what audio part is missing?..
I have since remade the duplicate session. It seems unreliable in that it behaves differently each time.
I deleted the sessions that I sent pictures of the first time sorry.
This time track one is 3:42.18 at 48k and 3:49.71 at 44.1k.
The audio files are the same length 3:49.845 at both sample rates when I open them in the audio editor.
I have done a simplified test and found something strange happening.
I have set up a montage with an untrimmed 48kHz file of 3:23.231 length. I have made a 44.1KHz version in RX which is the same length when inspected in the audio editor.
I have added markers at the start and the end of the audio file - the end marker being at 3:23.231 as you would expect. When I create the customised duplicate the markers still show at the same time positions. However, in the Album tab the track is now showing as 3:06.55 in length.
So there is an inconsistency between what the marker tab and album tab are showing. I wonder could this have something to do with it?
I would also look at the Clips Tab in both montages to see if there are time differences.
I see you are using Start and End markers in your montage. I use CD Track Splice Markers instead and while this procedure should work with any marker type, this is one main difference I can see between what you’re doing vs. what I tested.
The clip tab shows them to be the correct length in both sample rate versions. I can’t use splice markers in this example as it is only one audio file/song.
Further strangeness I have just found… when I close the 44.1k version montage and then reopen it the problem is rectified and the length of the clip and song are consistent.
I have checked if this fix works on the more involved session where I initial encountered the problem but it doesn’t.
I can see the WaveLab indicator that the title does not start at the audio file start. And I don’t see that in another picture. I guess this is the origin of your problem. If the audio clip length doesn’t match the length of the audio file and there is a front offset, I am not sure the duplicate procedure can duplicate this.
Thanks for this, and apologies for all the messages but I am quite desperate to find a way around this.
I edited the first track in the audio editor to ensure there was no audio before the start of the clip. This song then worked well when I duplicated at 44.1k. However other songs in the montage where the audio file length was longer the the clip (either at start or end) still didn’t work. This is contrary to the experiment @Justin_Perkins did where the trim points were carried across.
So I am wondering if this problem is particular to just my setup? Or a setting I have enabled? Especially due to the inconsistencies that I have detailed above.
Thanks both for your time and input on this which is greatly appreciated.
The statement you made contains a misconception about the system. Making changes in the audio editor will not alter the boundaries of the audio clip. To adjust the clip boundaries, you must modify its edges. The small grey arrow in the previous image indicates that the clip can be extended to the left to reveal more of the underlying audio file. Its absence means you can’t extend it.
If the times in the Album Tab look wrong when you first make the Customized Montage Duplicate but look correct when you close and re-open the montage, you may have discovered a visual bug.
In fact, I think @Samuel_Proctor may have discovered a visual bug.
I just did a Customized Montage Duplicate from 96k down to 44.1k and the times in the Album Tab are indeed incorrect on the 44.1k version.
For example, track 1 on my project is 3:29.320 in the 96k montage, but on the 44.1k version it displays as 1:36.156
The Audio CD Report created from the 44.1k montage shows the correct track length of 3 mn 29 s 320 ms. I guess I never really look at the Album Tab times after I do a Customized Montage Duplicate.
When I close and re-open the 44.1k montage, the times in the Album Tab match between the 96k and 44.1k version.
