The right thing was to drop the NEK. How many years did we make that point? It was clear from the beginning it was an unnecessary thing to have, yet version after version it persisted… Same thing here…
But I’ll reiterate: It sits wrong with me to develop the “lesser” app with new features while important issues in the “flagship” linger for months, only for the “flagship” to then on top of that also have to wait for those new features to be incorporated. It sits poorly with me. Very poorly.
Same feelings completely.
I believe this is why we we will not see a Nuendo license also apply to Cubase.
It would be in an admission by Steinberg that it can be preferable to work in a Steinberg DAW that costs 25% of the price of their Flagship DAW. Which is of course true for months at a time based upon the release schedule, and depending on how you work.
So yes, in many ways it seems logical and it seems as though it would be painless for the company to make that available. But from a Steinberg marketing standpoint it is anything but a selling point for Nuendo. It’s a corporate admission of the reality we are all discussing in this forum regarding preferable features currently available in a much lower-priced DAW from the same company.
Awkward.
Had I known then what I know now, I would have spent the upgrade money for N8 as half the purchase price of owning a Cubase license. It’s not a lot of money and it’s not like I’m all bent out of shape about it. Just practically speaking, Cubase would be a smarter way to go for me at this point. My confidence in Nuendo as a more professional and stable application has definitely evaporated over the last two years.
Perfect example: the automation.
After working with the wonderful CB9.5 automation, I’m having a hard time re-adjusting to the N8.1 one.
The same project started in CB9.5 and very snappy on an old Mac, is a drag on N8.1 on a brand new one.
Dani
How does the automation differ between the two?
You drag a selection and it creates 4 nodes, like Pro Tools, also the nodes are bigger, more precise, very snappy.
I used to dislike the automation on CB/N until now, it seems very advanced.
I used Pro Tools, Logic, Digital performer and I can now say that Cubase Pro 9.5 has my favorite automation workflow.
Dani
When writing automation in Cubase, during the first pass it behaves like “To eNd” is activated.
I.e. The fader stays at the level last set. So if your fadre is é -6dB, then the rest of the track will stay at -6dB.
While in Nuendo, the fader will snap vack to it’s initial value. (Unless you use one of the Automation “fill” functions.
Fredo
That‘s pretty limited and shows the dilemma Steinberg is putting users into: You can either have proper automation or a snappy gui.
Huh? In touch mode you just have to punch out and the fader returns to the original value.
It’d be awesome to hear from Steinberg this week… Just sayin.
Hello everyone, (and sorry for my english)
In our studios, at France Televisions, Marseille, we have 4 Nuendo and 4 Pro Tools on 6 old Mac Pro 2008. We work on many TV shows, documentaries and magazines, with lots of tracks and 2 Beautiful DFC AMS NEVE. we prefer to use Nuendo because it’s more stable than Pro Tools (for us) and it more convenient for our post job.
The syncstation is wonderfull, the use of izotope RX 6 is faster and more efficient than with Pro Tools ! (we use keyboard Maestro and good macros for that), the mediabay is more efficient and effective in network than the workspace of protools, the midi control of our 960 (thanks to Fredo), the DMX control of all our lights in sync with Nuendo transport (very usefull for foley recording) and especially especially: the collaborative work !! huge saving of time and efficiency. We sometimes use 4 Nuendo at the same time on a mix, in MTC with the syncstation and in collaborative mode, with complex MADI and DANTE routing. it’s very very powerful. During mix sessions, we can respond to complex demands of our directors very quickly and we never stop the mix. (even to load new film version on all sessions)
It’s why we are in no hurry to switch to Nuendo 8 (thanks to your strong feedback!) Even if it is very attractive. We want to be sure that it’s ready for PRO work and I must admit that Steinberg does not really have the sense of priorities and communication on this one.
I really hope that Nuendo will keep its POST orientation and continue to innovate :
are you waiting Pro Tools to do it?Good evening to all
Great post, glidator, and your English is 1000x better than my French!
Very interesting post. Let’s hope that someone from Steinberg reads it.
And I’m with you on your last sentence. The new calendar/date based system makes the trial almost useless when we have a million other things to do.
Yes, I agree that updates should be synchronised where possible, ie: Cubase Pro 9.5 = Nuendo 8.5 & released quite closely together. For that matter, why not ‘bite the bullet’ & next roll Nuendo forward to 9.5 nomenclature. Cubase & Wavelab now both have the same version numbers.
FWIW, seems to me that Cubase Pro 9.5 is a strong indication of ‘listening to users’ and hopefully a useful pointer to future developments for Nuendo. IMO, Cubase 9.5 is one of the strongest updates since v7. That is, assuming Nuendo users present a consistent feedback front and related thread(s). This would seem less clear in the Nuendo forums than that of the Cubase ones - possibly because of all of the many varied workflows in the post sector (?).
In any case, my 2 cents & Cubase Survey feedback for the next steps were:
This last suggestion will not likely appear in Cubase, but in my view would be very well suited to Nuendo, assuming there might be a return to greater emphasis on film composition /post. Right now, gaming seems to be the main thrust, but many users seem dissatisfied with quite so much of this while less of film these days. Many comments elsewhere about AAF, round-tripping, surround sound etc.
I suggest we need a consolidated thread and/or a more specific survey from Steinberg about Nuendo development. Again, Cubase 9.5 would seem to demonstrate excellent progress over there.
Exclusive composer-oriented features for Nuendo is never going to happen. Steinberg spent over a decade trying to stop the misconception that Nuendo is some sort of Cubase Plus (that’s basically the only reason why the Nuendo NEK existed). There’s no reason why they should make that a Nuendo-only feature anyway, that would only make people angry.
The zone concept is also far from exclusive to DP these days.
Dear forum members,
Thank you for this discussion. Please allow me to shed some light on a few future Nuendo plans in order to respond to your questions.
First of all, Nuendo’s main direction will remain at audio post-production. Over the last 10 years we’ve been bringing unique post-production features to Nuendo that are only available as paid add-ons with other DAWs, or not available to them at all. We believe the real workflow value comes with the close integration of such tools, which is always preferable compared to plug-ins or external standalone applications. This has been – and will always be – our motivation for making Nuendo better.
Nuendo in 2018
Of course, there are also a few features missing when compared to other applications. No single DAW on the market is “complete” and there is always room for new features, but we will provide some more urgently needed features to complete the Nuendo workflow, in near time. Among those features is Field Recorder Support. The integration of that functionality is rather complex, but it is the next topic on our feature list.
That points me to another open question (actually the thread starter): what about the Cubase Pro 9.5 features. As I mentioned several times, Cubase and Nuendo running on different development branches and it is not possible to easily “merge” them. Believe me; we would have done it if this would have been possible. However, we strongly recognize that Cubase Pro 9.5 brings some more general features that add to the workflow, and we want to bring them into Nuendo asap.
Both topics – Field Recorder Workflow and Cubase features – as well as some further new features related to the video engine and general audio production, are planned for a new 2018’ Nuendo release. This release will be supplied on a new development branch (substructure).
We have a concrete concept on how to realize this. However, this will be a major task as RX is a mighty toolset (which makes people willing to spend some serious money for these features). Then again, the RX workflow with a DAW is not very convenient and we believe there needs to be a major improvement. Bringing such features “easily” to Nuendo might not be possible, but we will work hard to do it and we will do it.
Current issues
I also want to be clear on current performance issues that have been reported. First of all, thank you for your ongoing contribution in reporting such issues. We’ve been analyzing them and are currently working on a solution. We recognize that there have been more issues reported with N8.0 than with the predecessor. It is not at all our intention to release a product that is not “finished”. However, the technical interventions (be it rewritten or totally new code) have gone way deeper than in previous Nuendo releases. For Direct Offline Processing (DOP) alone we had to rewrite a serious part of the internal processing structure (previously one of the older Nuendo code parts). That being said, the number of issues might have been higher in the first couple of months compared to Nuendo 7. However, we believe that Nuendo 8.1 already solved some of the major issues and the next maintenance is already planned. With the upcoming maintenance, expected for end of January/beginning of February, we will address overall product performance issues, especially User Interface responsiveness.
Nuendo strategy
Coming back to the beginning of my post, I’d like to share some more points regarding Nuendo’s strategy. While I hope I could provide a clearer picture on our plans for Nuendo in 2018, and our strong commitment to audio post-production, it is also important to open up new market segments. One of them being “game audio”, back in 2015. Many of our Nuendo customers have been involved in creating/composing game sound since ages, and it was finally time to recognize that the game audio creation workflow comes with its own feature requirements. As a first step, bridging the gap between the audio and game world has really added to the game creation workflow, and we will continue to improve the game audio experience with Nuendo. We also recognize that workflows are merging; nowadays game engines play a more significant role, be it in education, in applications across industries or even in the media content creation area, e.g. when creating a game trailer with audio assets sitting in the game engine. We have very valuable ongoing conversations with major game studios and I have to say that many of the improvement and suggestions made are also very useful in any other audio workflow, not limited to gaming.
Finally, we have another project going on in parallel. We are evaluating plans on releasing a product for Virtual and Augmented Reality (VR/AR), powered by Nuendo technology. More I cannot reveal at the moment.
I hope that I was able to shed some light on our future strategic direction, on our next steps and release plans. I cannot highlight enough our commitment to the professional audio industry; to post-production (audio & video), to game creation and composing and to new technologies such as VR.
Steinberg
It is a major task to achieve all these goals, as markets are moving fast. In order to prepare ourselves for the market requirements of the next decade, Steinberg as a company is currently in a comprehensive restructuring phase. As a result, the company will grow further on and we will be able to provide updates and new products faster and more efficienent for a variety of markets. One of the main elements of the restructuring is the strengthening of the pro audio division inside Steinberg, with more people and budget. As you know, such things don’t happen overnight. But this is the most extensive restructuring since Yamaha has taken over Steinberg and it comes with a great perspective and with our commitment to a continuous investment into more people and knowledge.
Thanks for reading.
All my best,
Timo
Thank you Timo
Bye / Tumppi
Thank you Timo, your post is a breath of fresh air. We’ve been cooking rumors in this forum for weeks now and it’s very interesting to finally read your statement. I think we all would very much appreciate you being here more often, engaging in a discussion.
It’s great to hear you talking to huge game studios, I guess that’s where the majority of your new market comes from. But we here in the forums also have valuable insights and ideas and it would be nice to know Steinberg paying attention to them as well and not only to the big shots. Is there the possibility to get on a beta / user feedback team for game audio or are all the positions filled?
What does that mean? A .5 version? A major version? A patch release? A parallel Nuendo product release?
This sounds very interesting. Current workflow with RX connect is not very convenient and still error prone. Great to hear Steinberg thinks about a bigger concept to make this work. And knowing that I’m now also much more inclined to wait patiently as I heard there’s being work done in that area
Thanks for clarifying. If something goes wrong with development after that fact, I think you’ll find understanding users here in this forum - when they’re talked to and not left to speculation.
For game audio, when it comes to the creation of countless SFX, this is not linear such as a movie or piece of music is. Is there anything in planning to cater to this workflow? I mean being able to more efficiently organize a big amount of multi-layered (multi-track) SFX in a single project? Separating SFX from each other - other than by spreading them out through the timeline and having a very long project? Or is the common workflow to have 1 SFX per Nuendo project and constantly open and close projects?
This for me was by far the most interesting bit from your post and makes me hopeful for the future. It “seemed” to me as user, with all what has been going on, that with the currently fast moving market and the expansion into game audio, that Steinberg might be a little understaffed. Hearing this is great news and onboarding new people is a major task. These restructurings are also never easy and cost time and nerves. But it’s great to hear a strengthening is happening!
Finally, you stated that for DOP you had to rewrite a bigger chunk of older code. With a strengthened team, are there plans to also improve usability of the general interface of Nuendo and de-clutter it? Making all the dialogs more consistent and not behaving in different ways from each other, having different options, even though they are closely related? Modernizing the VST Connections window that looses settings, the key command editor with it’s very cumbersome Macro editor and various such things?
Thank you VERY much for this long and thorough statement about what’s going on. It was much needed and very much appreciated.
Thanks for your long response Timo. It is greatly appreciated.
Back to my original question for this thread, can you give us an idea as to when the Cubase 9.5 features will be in Nuendo 8?
You mentioned this:
“Both topics – Field Recorder Workflow and Cubase features – as well as some further new features related to the video engine and general audio production, are planned for a new 2018’ Nuendo release. This release will be supplied on a new development branch (substructure).”
There is no real indication in your quote as to when in 2018, and it actually makes it sound quite a ways away.
Thanks again!
PS: As 9.5 offered some fixes for GUI responsiveness as well, will we need to wait for this “new release” or will we see those fixes sooner, and for free?
GUI responsiveness. Maintenance update. End January / Early Feb.