Cubase and RME USB Audio: An issue with AMD CPUs and low sample buffers

[malcolmbarr]

Over the last few days I have been troubleshooting an issue relating to a new windows PC I have built with the intention of running Cubase with an RME Babyface Pro USB audio interface. To my surprise, it appears that there is a troubling interaction which has a long history, has not been solved, and may influence your choice if your are thinking of building a system based on an AMD Ryzen CPU, windows, Cubase and an RME USB audio device. I am posting here, and also on the RME forum, in the hope of either finding a solution to this issue or at least making people aware that this problem exists.

The problem in my case is that the Cubase audio engine does not reliably start when the application is opened when set to use the RME ASIO USB driver at a 256 sample buffer or below. By opening another audio application, then switching back to Cubase, you can usually prompt the audio engine in Cubase to begin working, provided I have set the Cubase audio engine to release the ASIO driver when in the background. If i set the sample buffer to 512, Cubase 14 works without issue.

Note that all other non-Cubase audio applications work fine with the RME USB driver in all of my testing. I have also tested two other audio devices in this PC and both have worked with all audio applications, including Cubase 14, without issue at all sample buffers sizes I have tested. In my case the issue is specific to Cubase 14-RME USB audio driver-buffer size 256 or below. I have found 5 threads from this forum which show issues which are very similar have emerged with the specific configuration of Cubase-RME USB Asio driver, and AMD Ryzen CPU over various recent versions of Cubase without ever being definitively addressed - unfortunately I cannoit post links to those threads here, but you can find them in my post about this issue on the RME forum.

In a bit more detail, mine is a brand new Windows 11 PC, 9950x3D CPU, 128GB DDR. Latest driver and firmware for RME Babyface Pro connected via USB. Windows audio set to use Realtek PC audio (not RME). RME Babyface is internally clocked, sample rate 44.1khz.

-All ASIO audio applications (Reaper, Kontakt 8 stand alone, for example) work fine with RME Babyface Pro at 256 sample buffer except Cubase 14. At 256 sample buffer on the RME, Cubase 14 often (approx 80% of the time) opens with no error messages but audio engine not functioning (so no audio produced). This is the case both straight after a reboot or after other applications have been used. If I set the sample buffer to 512, everything (including Cubase 14) works without issue (but the latency is too high for my use).

- If I set the Cubase audio system to release the audio driver when in the background, I can sometimes get the Cubase audio engine to start by doing the folllowing: open another audio application set to use the RME Asio driver while leaving Cubase 14open, and then returning to Cubase 14.

- I have tried different USB connections, changing all ASIO related setting in Cubase 14, changing number of RME WDM drivers and their exclusivity of use - the Cubase 256 sample issue remains in all cases. I am testing using an empty Cubase project.

-I installed two other audio interfaces (Topping Pro E2x2, Zoom UAC-8) and both work fully without any issues in Cubase at all tested buffer sizes.

I have contacted Steinberg technical support and have been working with them on this issue, however I do not think my specific contact quite realizes the ancestry of this issue as yet.

[MrSoundman]

Hi Malcolm and welcome to the forum!

As a new user you will not have been able to post links yet , so for reference, here’s a link to what seems to be the most relevant thread here about the Ryzen/RME-USB combination:

Cubase Pro 11 and R.M.E. UCX Audio System problem

Hi, another question from one Cubase user. He mentioned the very frequent problem related to Audio System: as soon as he opens any project the audio has not been played back, all the meters are without any activity. The only action which helped him was at least once (but randomly more attempts needed) disconnecting one (!!) channel from Main Output Bus (in Audio Connections - Outputs tab) and reconnecting it back. Reset button under Audio System did not help. Running OS: Windows 10 Home build 1…

For completeness, here’s the link to your post on the RME forum:

Babyface Pro and Cubase 14: audio issues at 256 sample buffer (Page 1) —...

[mlib]

Sounds like a tricky one and like you have been thorough in your testing but I’ll throw a few thoughts out nonetheless that might be worth trying.

• Setting Windows audio to use Babyface (use an output that is not defined in Cubase’s Audio Connections) and the Release Audio Driver setting turned off. (I would use this setup as “default”.)
• Powering the Babyface with an external PSU.
• Starting Cubase in Safe Mode with User Settings and 3rd party plugins disabled.
• If available, trying both a USB 2 and USB 3 port.
• Disable power saving of ALL usb hubs in Windows Device Manager.

[malcolmbarr]

MrSoundman - thanks for posting the links!

mlib- thanks for the suggestions. I have tried all of them with the exception of external PSU for the Babyface (I don’t have one). The behaviour of the Cubase/RME stays the same. My next step will be to try a USB PCIe add-in card just to see if that makes any difference.

[MrSoundman]

What is the motherboard (and chipset)?

[malcolmbarr]

Asrock Nova X870E Wifi (AMD X870E chipset)

[MrSoundman]

See if you can connect the Babyface to one of the processor’s own USB ports, rather than via the 870E chipset. I just had a glance at your motherboard’s manual, and I think it would be this one:

It’s not clear which rear connector this is on, but you could try the ones marked 12 and 13 in the manual:

Essentially what you’re after is to locate the USB port “nearest” to the CPU. I don’t have a Babyface but RME recommends this for the Digiface USB.

[malcolmbarr]

I have tried ALL of the USB ports on both the front and the rear of the motherboard. The behavior is the same in all instances.

The only ones I have not tried are the USB C ones as I dont have a USB C to A cable. They are promising as they actually use an add-on controller in the block diagram. But I think sticking a PCIE card in will do the same, and I will try that later (need to find where I have a card…)

[MrSoundman]

One other thing:

@malcolmbarr

Windows audio set to use Realtek PC audio (not RME).

It’s just my own opinion, but I always disable onboard audio in the BIOS (UEFI settings). I also turn off all Windows sounds (beeps and stuff). In addition, any “HD Audio” provided by the GPU gets disabled in Device Manager and if any other ASIO drivers that I’m not using have gotten installed, I also uninstall them and delete the driver files.

Best of luck with the PCIe USB card in any case!

[malcolmbarr]

That is all sound advice, but I have done some of the above because I was asked to by Steinberg Tech support during troubleshooting. They explicitly wanted another audio device present and windows audio directed to it. Your suggestions are all steps I will take once I have identified the probelm (or not) and decided what I am going to do.

[wavefunktion]

Q1) Why do you have Windows set to use Realtek instead of the RME Babyface ? Can you please explain this configuration in more detail ?

Q2) Can you clarify what ASIO driver is loaded in Cubase when it’s not working as expected ? (Studio / Audio System / ASIO Driver)

[malcolmbarr]

1. Oscar from Steinberg tech support suggested this problem may reflect only having one audio device (the RME babyface) in the system, so he asked me to enable the Realtek motherbaord audio and direct windows to use that for systems sounds. Hence I did as he asked. However, it makes no difference to the issue I am encountering what other audio devices are present in the system. If I uninstall/remove all other devices and use only the RME babyface with 1 WDM driver, the same problem occurs. If other devices are present in the system (Realtek motherboard audio, or another USB audio interface), the behaviour of Cubase is the same if I set it use the RME asio driver.
2. Cubase is being set to use the RME Fireface USB ASIO driver. Don’t be confused by the word “Fireface” that is simply the generic title used by RME for the USB ASIO driver that also serves for the Babyface Pro. I have also tested with the generic and Steinberg asio drivers - these appear to work but will not allow a buffer setting less than 512 samples. At 512 samples the RME driver works fine as reported above, so that doesn’t help.

[wavefunktion]

Ok.

What I was wanting to know was when you are using the RME Babyface with a buffer size setting less than 512, what ASIO Driver shows up in Cubase ?

[malcolmbarr]

ASIO Fireface USB, just like in your image.

[wavefunktion]

Does Cubase start working correctly if you switch it to the “Steinberg built-in ASIO Driver” and then back to the “ASIO FireFace USB” Driver without restarting the Cubase application ?

[malcolmbarr]

No. Switching the driver then back to the RME driver does not get the Cubase audio working with the Babyface.

But if I open another ASIO using application, and then switch back to Cubase 14, the audio in Cubase typically starts working, provided I have enabled ‘release audio driver when in the background’ in the Cubase audio settings.

[wavefunktion]

So Cubase doesn’t output any sound when switching to the “Steinberg built-in ASIO Driver” either ?

This is a interesting and important detail because mine switch seamlessly, it’s as if no drivers are working in your Cubase.

[malcolmbarr]

While I have switched to the other driver, I get audio. But when I switch back to the RME, audio stops. But the other driver is using a higher buffer setting with the RME, which I know works anyway.

[wavefunktion]

Ok got it, that’s a important detail. So it’s specifically the “ASIO FireFace USB” Driver not working in these circumstances.

[malcolmbarr]

Note that I have tested other USB audio interfaces in this system and they work with Cubase fine at all buffer settings. The problem is specific to the ASIO Fireface USB driver at 256 sample buffer or below.