Cubase Pro 12 This application was terminated with an error on each shutdown?

I have not used any Waves plugins for quite a while as I have tired of them and preferred alternatives. However, I will load a plugin and see what happens.

I have chosen a project and inserted AR TG Mastering first as an insert in the strereo out, shut down and restart, the restart again. No issues. I then inserted the same plugin in Control room and repeated the process, again with no issues. I would suggest that this might well be system related, given that there must be a lot of waves users out there that are, like me, not having this issue. .I even saved with the plugin turned off, again no issue.

Intel i9-10900KF CPU @ 370 GHz
RME Fireface UC.

I tried another time today:

uninstall all VST’s, plugins, all steinberg software including licensing,managers, cubase,… cleaning with ccleaner , erase all folders steinberg,cubase VST in documents and program files, check update for win11, restart the PC and then just install download manager and then just cubase 12 app .

First start, ok, then quit and startup again : safemode , freeze,…

I check the crashdump folder and notice it create a freeze crash file during the startup, when the Initializing of the studio Manager, and I tried 10-15 start, 2/3 time it create a crashdump during the initializing of the studio Manager, and every time it create the file, the next startup I have the safe Mode message.

So no solution actually, I just start multiple time cubase until it work

Well, as the screen shot shows, this issue is not fixed in 12.0.10. Probably not surprising given the release notes didn’t suggest anything that would address this issue.

FWIW, this is with a new project that has only one instance of Kontakt 6 (running The Grandeur), not frozen. Control Room does have iZotope Tonal Balance Control 2 and Waves Nx Germano Studios Stereo in its inserts, both disabled (not just bypassed). The entire project to this point just has one Instrument track, one markers track, one tempo track, and one time signature track.

While it’s too early to suggest the new version made the issue worse since I have only run one session in it thus far, the symptom was worse than what I mostly have been seeing. In particular, Cubase did actually freeze, and had to be killed with Task Manager, on trying to exit (after having closed the project separately and waited for the red color to be available on the close button for the Cubase window that usually signifies it is safe to close it and a hang isn’t likely. So the message was actually legit.

I just tried again now closing the project for the second session, waiting for the close button to turn red, then closing Cubase again. This time it didn’t hang on exit, nor did it come up with the freeze/abnormal termination message on restarting. Nothing whatsoever was changed in the project (I didn’t even play it), though.

One thing I’ve been wondering is if there might be some relationship to whether an automatic backup kicks off during the session, meaning you have to at least be in the session for 15 minutes (or whatever the default timing is for those). But that is really grasping for straws at this point since there have been so many inconsistencies in the times when this has happened and the relative minority of times when it hasn’t.

@silhouette I’ve also seen some times when no Waves plugins were involved at all, and other times when Waves plugins were in the project but the message did not happen. I agree that there likely is something system dependent, but lots of people are seeing this, so whatever that is can’t be too terribly unique. I’ve sent a bazillion log files for this to Steinberg. (I’m guessing others have, as well.) It would sure be nice to see some Steinberg input on what might be going on here, maybe some specific tests to try, or whatever may be applicable based on what they are seeing in the log files (assuming someone really is checking those when they come in).

It seems that Cubase-12 can’t shut down after the audio engine have processed 2^31 samples. About 13h at 44.1khz and 3.5 hours an 192 Khz. It is likely a sample pointer/counter that is wrapping. It is a signed int32 where it should have been a int64 type.

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Guys, look no further, there is a major issue since 12.0.10 which causes Cubase to crash when inserting certain plugins and even opening plugins that are already loaded (this includes Waves but isn’t limited to).
The crash probability is so high that it is indeed impossible to work in this current state.
There are several reports on this topic, which is also more appropriate to discuss about this issue since the moderators are reading it more frequently : Cubase 12.0.10 - performance issues

I’m curious if you’ve gotten this information from Steinberg, or if it is just some sort of intelligent guess. In particular, if this is indeed the issue (or at least one of them), it would square with some (but not all) of my experience with the actual hanging on termination with Cubase Pro 12.0.10. I work at 96 kHz, and my typical sessions are on the order of 10-12 hours, albeit with breaks for meals and such. At 96 kHz, the math for your numbers would work out to on the order of 7 hours before running into the problem, and I’d guess I am actually using Cubase at least that long. (Of course, if the audio engine is still processing samples when the transport is not running, which I think might be the case based on hearing hiss from some plugins that emulate analog hiss, then there’s no question of having the audio engine working well past the 7-hour mark.)

The reason I say it doesn’t square with all of my experience with 12.0.10, though, is because I’ve also sometimes seen the hangs when shutting Cubase down after just a few minutes (but other times, I have not). So that would at least suggest multiple potential causes if this 32-bit/64-bit float for number of samples processed were one such issue. The last time I saw a few minutes with the hang, then, a little later, without it, both for short sessions, the ones with the hang did have Control Room inserts (specifically, iZotope Tonal Balance 2 then Waves Nx Germano Studios, both disabled at the time), while the short sessions that did not have those in them were ones that didn’t have the hang on exit. But then my full session after that (still without the Control Room inserts) did hang on exit.

When you say “crash” probability, do you just mean the hang on exit that is being discussed in this thread, or do you mean an actual crash while working in a Cubase session?

While I’m pretty much always experiencing the hang on termination with normal length (10-12 hours) sessions in 12.0.10, I am generally not experiencing crashes (and only a few hangs) during the actual sessions, and I am frequently using Waves plugins (among quite a few other brands).

Of course, I realize all of this is at least somewhat system-/environment-dependent (I’m on Windows 10 on a 2014 vintage custom PC), but I generally have been able to do productive work in 12.0.10, even if 12.0.0 seemed better, certainly with regard to only the messages of abnormal termination versus actual hangs on shutdown, but it also seems like 12.0.10 is not performing as well, and getting audio artifacts earlier, as 12.0.0 on my system. But the performance side of things is tough to be sure about since I am working with a different project (whereas, when I went from 11.0.41 to 12.0.0 I was starting with the exact same project, and 12.0.0 was a slight improvement over 11).

I mean actual crashes that occur while working in Cubase, but sometimes it also crashes when closing the project.
However it seems very sporadic as many people also say they aren’t experiencing any crashes, while running Cubase on the same OS.
In any case, the 12.0.10 maintenance update has increased performance for some people, and made it a lot worse for other.

Thanks for clarifying.

The one actual workflow issue I’ve seen while working in projects early on after the 12.0.10 update has been more frequent hangs, specifically when making certain plugin changes while the transport is running. For example, I know one time I was changing drum kits within Superior Drummer 3, and another time I may have been changing plugins (I don’t recall which brand, but it could well have been Waves, and there was at least one time using an IK Multimedia plugin the IK stuff is “special” with respect to changing presets in that they don’t return control to the DAW when just trying different presets in their browser, but only after hitting enter to finalize the selection – annoying anyway, but I think I did have a hang in that scenario in 12.0.10).

I don’t think I’ve had any actual crashes, though (not that hangs are really preferable). But since the time when I was seeing this, I started treating certain types of plugin changes like walking on eggshells – i.e. stop the transport, then make the significant change (e.g. changing one plugin for another or loading a different sample set, as opposed to just switching presets in an audio plugin), then restart the transport – and I don’t think I’ve seen further hangs, other than on exit.

When you use Cubase you now and then reset this counter. At least some of this reset points also will hang when the data is wrapped. For example Constraint-delay-compensation. There was a similar bug in Cubase some years ago but with crackling audio as result.

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Just to try and test the theory @cubace alluded to above with the amount of audio engine runtime thing, I did a little testing today before getting started with my session. Of course yesterday’s session had hung, so I started out with the normal “freeze” dialog box on startup. I got past that, then let Cubase 12.0.10 start while going away and doing a few other things. I was probably away from my computer for 15-20 minutes. When I got back, I played my project through once (on the order of 3 minutes), recreated my groove quantize setting from the drums track (one super annoying thing is that these hangs on shutdown don’t preserve that, so it has been reverting to a setting from the last song I worked on), then saved the project and shut down Cubase once the red close button was available. Hang! So this was after way less than an hour, probably less than a half hour, of runtime.

So it seems obvious that, even if the long session consideration alluded to is always an issue that can lead to this hang on shutdown, it is not a required catalyst (since my session was nowhere near the amount of time needed to trigger that specific issue).

Next I decided to try one other thing I’d seen alluded to by some others with respect to this problem. Specifically, I’d seen some mention issues in a multi-monitor setup when windows are left open on the non-primary monitor at the time of closing a session. The mentions I’d seen seemed to involve some virtual instruments or plugins, and I did not have any of those open on my second monitor. Rather, I had the MixConsole and the Markers window up. It’s possible I may also have had the Quantization settings up since I’d tweaked those again after getting back into my session. I think I again saved the project, then I shut down Cubase. No hang this time. This would have been a much shorter time between starting Cubase and closing it than the previous time, though – almost certainly less than 10 minutes.

So now I wanted to try opening some second monitor windows again and closing the project. I opened the MixConsole and Marker windows. I think I also opened the quantization window at one point, but I noted that was always on top (i.e. it didn’t go behind the MixConsole window when selecting the MixConsole window), so I closed that. I didn’t think I’d actually made any changes to the project (apparently wrong, as Cubase prompted me to save the project on shutting down), so I didn’t save it when closing Cubase. Again, no hang.

Opening Cubase again, I noted that it did not open the MixConsole or Marker windows (I guess, “duh!” since I hadn’t saved the project), so I opened them again, this time did save the project, then shut down Cubase again. Again no hang.

Opening Cubase again after that, the extra monitor windows were back. Hmm, could it be that the project had to be both started and closed with the windows open to trigger this? The short of it is that I’ve done the same opening with extra monitor windows open at least 3 times since then, a few times with playing parts of the project and or trying some other experiments in between, and, so far, it has not hung on shutting down again.

This is obviously not to say it won’t do that at the end of my session late tonight. In fact, based on similar experiments this past week, I strongly suspect it will hang tonight. Thus, I have no clue whether this experimentation actually tells me (or anyone else) anything. But perhaps there is some connection to what happened in the previous session, not just the session in question??? For example, maybe if it hung and had to be killed with task manager on the previous session, plus there was some other necessary condition (windows open on a second monitor, something else???), this audio engine runtime counter (if it really is involved in the hangs on shutdown) doesn’t get cleared (e.g. maybe there’s some reference to the previous value made at the start of the session and a corrupted value from that session already starts things off on a bad foot), and that somehow also gets combined with the value from the current session, only needing one of the conditions (i.e. corrupted previous session value or overflowing a samples processed counter) to cause the situation, but a short previous session, even with a crash, then a current session that doesn’t overflow the value, gets past it and everything is cool until the next long session??? (Yeah, this is a totally wild guess, so probably unlikely, but for entertainment value???)

Well, FWIW, after about an 8.5 hour session today, Cubase 12.0.10 did NOT hang on closing tonight. Same project that’s had Cubase hanging on closing every day for the past week or two (basically a day or two after 12.0.10 came out), same virtual instruments, still keeping MixConsole and Markers open on my second monitor, playing with a bunch of plugins during the course of the session (including quite a few from Waves), though all were frozen with their tracks by the end of the session (other than one instance of Superior Drummer 3) and no plugins were in the Control Room inserts. Go figure!!! :rofl:

FYI, this hang on shutdown persists in Cubase 12.0.20.

After my previous post where the hang (temporarily) did not come back in 12.0.10, I had one session where I had a hang while actually working on the project – I was loading a PSP Infinistrip Stereo plugin at the time – but then, after coming back from that hang, Cubase still did not hang on shutdown that night. I think there might have also been one other session where it did not hang. Then yesterday I had a much shorter than usual session (maybe 5 hours at most), and it did again hang on shutdown.

Today when I started on the same project in 12.0.20, I fairly immediately (maybe after playing the project back once?) closed the project then closed Cubase, and it hung. After that, I did a sequence similar to what I described above, closing some windows that had been active on the second monitor at the point of the project hang – the first iteration was closing a Kontakt 6 window, then the next was closing the MixConsole and Marker windows – saving the project then closing the project then closing Cubase on each iteration, both with hangs resulting. But then I opened the project (now without extra windows) again, went to close the project, and it prompted me to save (despite having made no changes during the session), which I did, then closed Cubase, and this time no hang. Then I went back into Cubase 12.0.20 again, this time opening the MixConsole and Marker windows the first time, then adding the same open Kontakt window the second time, saving the project then closing the project then closing Cubase after each iteration, and there were again no hangs on shutdown.

So now maybe I’ll get a few real sessions without the hangs on shutdown after which it will come back at some point for whatever still-to-be-determined reason? I guess time will tell, but the bottom line seems to be that this situation has not changed from 12.0.10 to 12.0.20.

Just wanted to add to this.

For me, the new 12.0.20 Update seems to have cured this issue so far.

All of the projects of mine that had this issue at shutdown now close as they should so thank you Steinberg. :grinning:

If it happens again I will report back on this thread.

Same issue here with the 12.0.20 too … only put run cubase in administrator mode could fix it but it’s not recommended by Steinberg as someone doesn’t find some media after that … but Cubase closes always good in administrator mode.

For me, it is not a constant thing, one way or another, with given project. In the example I mentioned above with 12.0.10, I was only working on one project, and, though it hung the majority of times on exit, there was also a period, after the testing I’d mentioned, where it wasn’t hanging for several days, then it came the night before 12.0.20 came out. That same project was then hanging on 12.0.20 until I repeated the testing with the closing second monitor windows, after which it also did not hang on shutdown again, including after a relatively long session yesterday. I guess I’ll see what happens after today’s session. :slight_smile:

I still have hanged (beachball) after long sessions when stopping the application.

This is discussed on another Topic.

That thread is more about performance issues. I think this is a different issue and will only confuse in the other thread. I dont think I have ASIO issue.