Cubase VariAudio is a con - it doesn't render correctly, never has, and Steinberg know it

At first sight it’s a marvellous tool – I fell in love with it the first time I used it – beautifully smooth and natural sounding edits, with no effort. But eventually I started noticing that every now and then, no matter how much I tweaked it, some notes sounded clearly out of tune when I rendered them, either in a project or as a mix. It was only very occasionally I would notice it, but my pitch sensitivity is good but not perfect, and more to the point this was happening even after the edited vocals were going through a subtle bit of Autotune afterwards, meaning they had to be considerably off.

It gets off to a bad start – it doesn’t analyze the pitch correctly. Render a sine wave from Retrologue at C4, E4, G4, A4 and B4 and VariAudio will tell you you have C4 +6%, E4 -3%, G4 +8%, A4 +4% and B -5%. Analyze the same files in Wavelab and it will tell you you have C4, E4, G4, A4 and B4.

The fun comes if you snap them each to 0% and try rendering (or flattening) them. The C, G and A all ignore the edit and revert to their original pitches but the rendered E and the B are now 26 and 40 cents sharp respectively (in Wavelab) – considerably worse than useless.

If instead you use it on something that actually is out-of-tune you might be lucky enough that it improves it. Do the same exercise with an A4 +50% and you end up with a note that is only 15 cents sharp (or 9% when analyzed by VariAudio) – hurrah! – but repeating the process on the rendered file won’t get you any closer.
I also just now tried something I hadn’t tested before – fine-tuned my 15 cents sharp A down by 15 cents, rendered it and guess what – it’s still 15 cents sharp!

This is how well it deals with something as simple as a sine wave – it doesn’t seem to be any worse with something like vocals but it’s just as unreliable. At the time I discovered this issue I found one vocal note that was +0% (in VariAudio) before the edit and +36% after.

None of the different ways of rendering make any difference. The only way to guarantee you get what is on the screen is to send it out of your interface and record the audio back in. Then it works perfectly.

The whole thing is a joke – or, as I said at the start, a con.

Most of us don’t have the sort of hearing that will necessarily notice something being just a tiny bit out of tune. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t sound better if it wasn’t. And I think the vast majority of us are going to assume that if, just to be on the safe side, we’ve gone through an entire vocal line and snapped every note to the right pitch, and everything sounds fine, even if we can’t hear the difference, that we’re going to end up with what we see on screen.

I wish!

Depending on what you’re editing you seem to have a random chance that the rendered result will be 1, at least heading in the right direction, 2, exactly the same as before the edit, or 3, more out of tune then when you started.

I have tested this on different machines, and in versions from 5 to 12; if you put the same thing in you get exactly the same result, so the algorithms obviously haven’t changed in 15 years.

The thing that astonishes me is that you really would have thought that creating the algorithms to do the job in the first place was the hard bit – and I’m in absolute awe of the people who did the maths for that – and simply rendering it to a file would be child’s play after that. Apparently not, but if you can’t then what’s the point?

I first contacted Steinberg about this in May ‘22. It took 6 weeks before ‘tech support’ finally deigned to open a bug report with the developers. By that time I’d replied to multiple emails, done everything they asked plus a lot more testing and supplied plenty of evidence.
After another 3 months, and more prompting, I got an email saying ‘it seems they have not found any solution yet’, which at least was the first admission I had had that they accepted there was a problem.

That was the last I heard – I had no answer to my reply, which asked, amongst other things, whether working on the issue was a new thing or whether they had been trying to fix it over the previous 13 years (every time I had asked whether they already knew of the problem they avoided the question but I cannot believe I was the first to report it), and whether they had any intention of being open about the issue and/or stopping advertising VariAudio as a professional (functioning!) feature.

A month ago I noticed Cubase 13 was out, with VariAudio 3, so I wrote to ask whether they had now fixed the problem. This was what I got in reply - ‘Unfortunately, this report was classified as “out of scope” and it means it won’t be changed/fixed anytime’.

So there you have it – it doesn’t work, they know it doesn’t work and they have done for at least 2+ years but probably a lot longer, but my guess is that few enough customers have noticed and reported it that they can’t be bothered to try to fix it and have chosen instead to carry on misleading people and pretending it works.

And I do wonder whether that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Along with all the other things about Cubase that seem to indicate that Steinberg are a company that really can’t be bothered to make an effort, today’s discovery that standard pitch-shifting also doesn’t render properly just makes matters worse, and I have had issues with at least one third party vsti that works fine in situ but doesn’t render properly, so how much else is working fine in the program but not coming out the same way in the mix?
Be careful, and don’t take anything for granted with Cubase – that’s my advice.

What? Another conspiracy? There are so many these days that I can’t keep track any more.
FWIW, we use variaudio here on a regular basis for spot vocal correction, with satisfactory results. We always render the changes and the outcome after the render is as we expect.
We’re happy, clients are happy…

Same here. And I’ve been a loyal Melodyne user for years, a friend of the developer, and even had a video of me using Melodyne in my studio posted by Celemony. I love VariAudio and love the ease of use and quickness of use. Results are always great. Only thing I use Melodyne these days is for polyphonic editing, which VariAudio doesn’t do (yet). I’m sorry your experience with VariAudio hasn’t been positive.

Maybe Retrologue has built in pitch drift…
Try is with a sterile synth like Serum.

@KT66 and @Ted_Perlman2
I’m very happy you’re getting satisfactory results, and I’m not surprised - as I said, at its heart it’s a wonderful tool - I’d been using it for a year before I realized there was an issue, but it’s not guesswork; it’s thoroughly tested fact - you simply cannot rely on it to render properly - nor, it now seems, can you with other forms of re-pitching.
Regarding ‘another conspiracy’ - there’s a problem, Steinberg have admitted that but have chosen not to pursue trying to fix it. Call that whatever you want.
If you don’t believe me try the same test with Retrologue - I’d be very interested to hear what results you get. Unless, that is, you’d prefer to carry on believing it works perfectly.

It’s got optional drift, which was turned off, and the pitches were checked in Wavelab too. I only used Retrologue to test a problem I’d already discovered with vocals.

Disclaimer, I never use VariAudio or any other pitch correction tools.

I performed the same tests you described and came to the same conclusion—something doesn’t seem right here. Pitch detection on sine tones are consistently off.

EDIT:
I did some further testing.
I tried using Steinberg’s TestGenerator with a sine wave. Once with 440Hz and another with 880Hz. (I would have tried with more pitched but the TestGenerator only accepts one decimal point.)
Once I rendered in place and analyzed with VariAudio I got these results:
440Hz = A3 +1%
880Hz = A4 -1%

I then tried again with the same notes @peteardron used, C3, E3, G3, A3 and B3. This time with a different VSTi. I opted for M1 by Korg. Each note plays for about 18 seconds.
The audio was rendered to 48KHz/32bit float. Same as my project settings.
When playing the rendered audio from the M1 together with the rendered audio from Retrologue, there was a slow fade in/out on each of the notes. This indicates to me that the two instruments were not perfectly in tune with each other as they were going in and out of phase.
Here is the VariAudio pitch detection results from both instruments rendered.

**Retrologue**    **M1**
C4 -4%            C4 -5%
E4 -5%            E4 -5%
G4 +7%            G4 +7%
A4 -1%            A4 +0%
B4 -3%            B4 -2%

Close, but not exactly the same. Out of curiosity, I re-rendered the M1 part and got the same VariAudio results.

Next I changed the project sample rate from 48KHz to 96, saved the project and restarted Cubase. After rendering the two instruments again, these were the results:

**Retrologue**    **M1**
C4 +4%            C4 +4%
E4 -1%            E4 -2%
G4 +7%            G4 +7%
A4 +1%            A4 +1%
B4 +3%            B4 +3%

I’m not sure what to make of these findings other than I’m glad I don’t use VariAudio.

Yeah, I noticed that too, bizarre thing to not tune notes perfectly…

It tunes them perfectly while they’re playing in the project, which you would have thought was the hard bit, but then can’t render it - bizarre, pointless and something you’d really expect them to want to, and be able to, fix

I’m a guitarist. I’m used to out-of-tune.

Ha ha! Yeah, I wish I’d had autotune when I played the cello!

Does Cubase 13 allow for the VariAudio’d but not yet rendered/flattened track to be routed to an unused audio track and recorded there (thereby avoiding the render/flatten processes)?

I couldn’t say; I decided after I got 12 to stay on 11 and I won’t upgrade again unless I think it works properly (does what it says on the tin).

I’m not so sure about this. Let me explain. I use VariAudio a lot. I’ve used it for years. Now like you, I was shocked when I rendered vocals and then re-analyzed them. The results where seemingly random. I went a bit mad with trying to bounce/render/re-record tracks. But unlike you, I can’t say that this was driven by an actual fault. I have excellent pitch and I think the tracks were corrected in render. After a discussion here, I did a simple test - which I have just repeated a minute ago in C13. 1. Sing a simple melody and VariAudio it. 2. Render the file. 3. Re-analyze the rendered file. You will see that notes you corrected to 0% are no longer 0%. 4. Invert the phase of the rendered file. 5. Play the original corrected file at the same time as the rendered one. The result, is silence. To me, this means that it’s the relative nature of the analysis that is not micro accurate. If the two files cancel out, then they are the same. I’ve stopped worrying about this. As I said, I don’t hear out of tune notes once corrected and rendered. I’m not saying VariAudio is perfect. But I don’t think it’s a con. The test I rely on is the null mode. It works. The fact that it doesn’t give the same readout on render is a mystery to me, but I’m a producer, not a coder.

I see what you are saying. I have heard a few notes, supposedly tuned to “perfection” but, were not perfect. It certainly needs looking into by Steinberg.

I ran some test with 14 different pitches created from a VSTi (Retrolugue). I first recorded the VSTi onto an audio track. Then I used render-in-place from the VSTi to create another audio file.
From that second audio file I used these methods in order to create new audio files:

  • Recording playback
  • Bounce Selection
  • Render in Place
  • Audio Mixdown

In total I had 6 audio files, each containing 14 different pitches.
The analysis was varying up to +/-5%.
I had discrepancies of the 84 pitches on two occasions, each being analyzed 2% different then the original.

I ran null tests of all 6 files against the original output and the only thing I could see on an analyzer was in the region of -160dB, which I deem to be rounding errors and neglectable.

Can you please do these null tests on your end?
Also, feel free to use the trial version of Cubase 13 to check for any different results compared to Cubase 11.

I’m happy for this thread. I’ve never thought to double check the render.

Sometimes I think things sound off to me, and I’ve usually thought it’s just me, just a personal preference for a particular note to be a little sharp or flat. And I do think that’s a thing, like when hitting a note hard while singing, sometimes I want it to be a bit off. Sounds more human. Now I’m thinking it might just be the software. Maybe I do actually like notes to always be perfectly on pitch. I don’t know.

Bottom line is if the render is close enough, and I like it, then I’m good. It’d certainly be nice to be able to trust the software though. Now I don’t.

Is Melodyne going to finally get my business now? Anyone prefer it?

Please also check with a null test in case you think something is off. Just to rule out that your brain tricks you.

That all said, I’ve never NOTICED the render of variaudio to be different from what I was hearing while working on the project. So, I guess +/-30 cents doesn’t seem to bother me. Hmm… At least with vocals, which is 99% of what I use it for.

Now we are at +/- 30 cents.
It oculd also be a display issue and the actual audio is intact.

Thus the request to do a null test. It is, of course, your choice. Pay the extra money if you like.