Destructive deletion of Cubase-related files

Cubase
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1

I’m on Mac OS, using Nuendo 14.

I have had an issue with the deletion of .bak files that you can read here:

The issue I am now having is something similar but different.
I have gone into Nuendo to make some click tracks for a live gig. So I create a new session, make the click track, render it out, and in the settings of the render-out, I chose my downloads folder.

Once it was in my downloads folder, I was ready to close the session, and chose not to save the session. It asks me if I want to delete any related files to the session, and I click yes — because I don’t want any files like .peak files etc or any other files to be clogging up my system.

When I choose yes, however, it also deletes the file I just saved to my downloads folder on my Mac.

This is fine, and kind of expected I guess, since I chose to “delete any related files.” Fine. (Although I’m not a fan of it deleting rendered exports saved to external folders on my computer, but whatever)

My main problem with all of this is that those deleted files completely skip the Trash on my Mac and completely destructively delete. I had to go back into Nuendo, make the click track again, and when closing the session, decide not to delete any related files in order for it not to destructively delete. With this, however, comes .peak files and whatever other files are made that I may not even know how to search for.

It’s not the end of the world, but it just seems weird to me that it completely skips the “Trash” folder on my Mac. Why do files that Nuendo/Cubase delete not go to the Trash folder just incase I end up wanting to recover them, instead of completely destructively deleting?

This is the issue with the .bak files too. If it would just send those deleted .bak files to the Trash instead of completely erasing them, this would not be an issue.

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This does not happen on my MacOS 15.6.1 using Nuendo 14.0.32. However, I’m not sure what you mean by “render it out.” “Export” does not exhibit this behavior because the exported file isn’t created in the pool by default. One can certainly choose an “after export” action of “add to the pool,” which creates a separate file, and then exit without saving; the pool file instance will indeed be deleted, but not the originally exported one.

I’m not sure what you mean with the .bak files. On Mac, they are not deleted when you exit without saving (unlike Windows, reportedly). They ARE deleted when your “create x backups” threshold is exceeded, which is expected.

As far as why they don’t go into trash, I expect it’s the same on Windows when code-based temporary files are deleted - they just issue a delete to the OS and it deleted them. I would imaging OS-specific code for “move to trash” would have to be used, but that’s just guess.

@Reco29 is testing some of this so I’ve tagged him for visibility. Also note you tagged this “Cubase” instead of “Nuendo.”

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Hi @babble ,

same behaviour here on Windows 10:
Audio files that were generated via Render in Place will be deleteted if I close a project without saving it and agree to delete the files that have been created during the session. They don’t appear in the Windows Trash.

As @Thor.HOG said, this doesn’t happen with audio files generated via Audio Mixdown. He provided the solution to get rid of unwanted trash and yet keep your “file of interest” at the same time :wink:

@Thor.HOG : Can you check again if audio files created by Render in Place are really kept during exit without saving and confiming to delete all audio files in the subsequent dialog?

[quote=“Thor.HOG, post:2, topic:1008362”]
This does not happen on my MacOS 15.6.1 using Nuendo 14.0.32. However, I’m not sure what you mean by “render it out.”[/quote]
Maybe you didn’t use Render in Place?
Otherwise, this would be another example of different MacOs handling the deletion of generated files differently.

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Yes you are correct, if they are created with Audio Mixdown, this behavior will not happen.
But still, it makes me nervous how often Cubase/Nuendo deletes files destructively without going through the Trash first.
It is kind of misleading for Nuendo to allow to me to export an audio file using Render in Place (which, for the instance of bouncing out a click track I just made, is just slightly easier and more predictable than Audio Mixdown), and save it to my downloads folder, but then be able to delete it so easily. I understand I should use Audio Mixdown for this, but it comes back to a problem I find with Nuendo/Cubase frequently where you just have to be way too careful about things.

Also, @Thor.HOG , I tagged this in Cubase instead of Nuendo because nobody really answers forum posts in Nuendo — or atleast much less so. Unless I’m talking about Nuendo specific features, I tend to post in Cubase so that I get the most response.

As far as the .bak files, my experience is different than yours. My .bak files are deleted if I exit without saving, on Mac.

I am on Ventura 13.6.5, Nuendo 14.0.32

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BTW, I should note that I don’t exactly have a problem with Nuendo deleting the files I’ve exported out using Render in Place. I guess it kind of makes sense, especially when I say “delete any files created during the session”. It’s not 100% ideal when I have obviously saved in a location that is different than the session itself, but it it is not the worst feature in the world to get rid of all files created during a session that I am not abandoning. (Unless of course it is an Audio Mixdown, which should never be seen as related to a session once it is created).

My issue is that, like with my experience of .bak files, it completely skips moving any files to “Trash” and instead completely destructively deletes.
I just don’t know if things like .bak files, auto-saves, or audio files made during a session should be seen as “temporary files” in the same way that less important files (like .peak files that I mentioned) are. I believe these types of files should be moved to Trash instead of seen the same as any other temporary file and deleted permanently. Most other DAWs I’ve worked with usually move files like these to the Trash, and there have been times I have realized I’ve messed up and recovered things from my Trash folder.

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Yeah, I am with you on that one. Especially, when it comes to files which are located outside of the project folder. It would indeed be nice to find them in the trash folder, first.

Haha, I know cause I was thinking about dropping a little documentation on bak files. Older MacOs are different from MacOs 15x. That doesn’t make it easier to break down a rather complex subject like Autosave behaviour with little to no documentation provided in the manual.

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I would say “this doesn’t happen with Export functions, of which, “Audio Mixdown” is just one. Other exported files, since they are not placed in the Media Pool, remain unaffected by the “delete new files created since last save” option.

No, because he said “render them out” which was unclear to me. “Render In Place” explicitly adds the resultant media to the Media Pool (thus, “in place") irrespective of the actual file location chosen. I’m not trying to be pedantic, but I felt the “render them out” wording was on purpose, meaning, “out of the project” and thus an Export.

Hahaha - fair enough :slight_smile:

I probably wouldn’t use the term “misleading,” but rather just draw a distinction between functions that create media in the Media Pool and functions that don’t. If you choose a function explicitly designed to create pool-based media files (e.g. Render in Place), then one should just expect those files to be deleted when you tell it to “delete new files created since the last save.” The solution (to me) is just to select “no,” with the added caveat that you’ll need to perform file management of “orphaned” files on your own.

Yeah, it depends on both the app and the function. Ableton, by way of example, when browsing your User Library has the option to “Send to Trash” when you are deleting a file. However, if you perform an equivalent function to “Render in Place” such as “Freezing” an audio file, but then close the project without saving, and select “delete files” the same way you do in Cubase, those files are deleted permanently and not sent to the trash. This is the expected behavior from my perspective, as “move to Trash” is an OS-specific feature (even version specific from an API point of view) so (again, from what I recall I’ve seen) temp-file-based operations with pseudo-automatic delete features in cross-platform applications typically “always” use standard delete calls.

Indeed. I just take “hey, do you want me to delete this” actions to always mean “permanently” unless it explicitly indicates “trash” no matter what application I’m in. Has worked so far :slight_smile:

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Thor, I didn’t use “render it out” on purpose to be misleading.
Reco29 understood what I meant, and I later clarified. I misspoke, but I’m not trying to mislead on this forum on purpose…

Ableton doesn’t prompt you to choose a location for your Rendered-in-Place file the way Cubase does. The way Cubase does it makes it seem like you can save it to anywhere on your computer therefore creating something similar to an export or a bounce. Not to mention there are like 3 different ways to do something similar to “Render in Place” in Cubase.
Either way I wouldn’t compare Freezing in Ableton to the Render in Place dialogue in Cubase that specifically gives you a place on your HD to render it to, AS WELL as creating a new track of that Rendered in Place audio. It makes it unclear exactly what is happening, where as Freezing is obviously a project-specific file. Maybe you could compare Ableton’s “freezing” to Cubase’s “freezing” and then we could have a proper comparison.

I’m sure it has worked for you that way, Thor, and that you have never made the mistake of accidentally clicking yes and then not realizing that you’ve deleted files you didn’t mean to delete. It must be nice to be you and never make mistakes.

Anyway, my request remains the same. I’d like things to go to Trash, not permanently delete. Maybe its just cuz I’m too human (unlike Thor) and make mistakes, and I appreciate when software accommodate some mistakes. My issue switching to Nuendo has consistently been a fight to be vigilant to not make human error in a way that I’ve always been appreciative of other DAWs for being kinder about.

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Sorry, you lost me with this one. I’ve been taking part in a technical discussion of which features produce specific results, what expectations I have within the context of my experience, and what my opinion of said features/results are. I’ve stated “to me” and “my opinion” and “what I’ve seen” extensively.

Your ad hominem sarcasm is not warranted, nor is it appreciated. Maybe try and change the way you react to people who go out of their way to help you in the future. Good luck.

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Wow, what has just happened here…?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree, @babble . Thor was just trying to help you understand how Cubase handles files.
Actually, it never occured to me before that it makes perfect sense to make a distinction between export functions (as in the Export dialog) and internal functions that are mirrored in the pool. That’s an excellent approach. The first one aims at creating files which will remain outside of Cubase’s internal file organization and the latter ones are designed to remain inside the pool and remain subject to be deleted by Cubase.
However, I see your point @babble : With the option to save the files anywhere on your system the Render in Place dialog is sort of misleading. In fact, I just had to check, too because the option to save your files anywhere on your system implies that these files belong to the first category (export).

Anyways, I think you owe Thor an apology… his post was definetly not aimiming at showing off any superhuman powers, he’s one of the most kind and modest guys around here!! Besides, differentiationg between Export dialog functionality and internal functionality which is pool-related is an eye-opener. Haha, at least to me :wink: So thanks @Thor.HOG for that :+1:

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Sorry, I just get frustrated on this forum when literally everything that could be attributed to “user error” is completely disregarded as something that Steinberg could do better. One of my core beliefs of good UI is that it helps mitigate human error.

Sorry to take it out on you, but I feel like I so often get the response that “oh, if you just do it this way instead of another completely seemingly intuitive way then it will work”.

It’s probably just a core disagreement between me and a lot of Steinberg die-hards. I come from Logic and an Apple ecosystem where user error is so perfectly mitigated almost to a fault, but I prefer that over the 'read the manual or your screwed’ approach — which doesn’t even work with Steinberg to be honest cuz their manual is not very comprehensive and it isn’t always obvious what is slightly different between like 5 ways to do the same thing except this one option of doing it actually works differently in this one very specific circumstance which you can’t really predict unless you’ve done it before and been completely screwed because you did it this way once so NOW you’ll never do it again but if it is your first time doing it you better cross your fingers.

IDK, that is my experience with Steinberg and Cubase. Every other DAW I’ve used is always so much more obvious what each feature is for, while Cubase seems to have relics that are so misleading. Maybe this particular instance isn’t the best example, but it is one of them.

So, sorry to take it out on you @Thor.HOG , I’m just frustrated with this kind of response on the forums that feels like a “well you should have known”.

And I do think it is just a core disagreement that we have and I have noticed this before with us. You are very literal with software. I want software to be forgiving.

Apologies for the drama

PS, before I get the “well then don’t use Cubase” comments — There are reasons I use Cubase/Nuendo over other DAWs. Doesn’t mean the UI doesn’t completely surprise and frustrate me all the time.

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