How can I create a “dim7maj7” chord symbol (with notes 1 b3 b5 bb7 7, e.g. Fdim7maj7 = F Ab Cb Ebb E) that displays with a triangle (e.g. Fo7△7)?
When I input Fdim7maj7, it always displays as Fo7#7 instead, which is not what I want.
I tried to edit the chord symbol appearance, but I must be confused about something because it doesn’t seem to work:
I have edited the style of this chord to use a triangle, but even after applying the change it still displays as before. The inputted chord name is indeed Fdim7add#7 as required (trying to input Fdim7maj7 automatically renames to Fdim7add#7).
Note that I would really prefer a global solution, so that I don’t have to manually go editing chords for each piece which includes a dim7maj7 chord symbol that I want to display like this.
as delaying a resolution to I, e.g. in F major, instead of directly resolving to Fmaj7, instead play Fdim7maj7 and then Fmaj7 (e.g Misty),
as a V chord, e.g. in C major, play Abdim7maj7 functioning as G13b9/Ab. Common in bossa nova to also resolve that down to a minor V chord, e.g. G13b9/Ab to Gm7 to set up a ii/V to the IV chord (e.g. Corcovado),
as a variant on a Neapolitan chord, e.g. Fdim7maj7 resolving to E in E major (as in this example from Jacob Collier’s Little Blue)
Hmm, I guess I hadn’t realized this, but you’re right, Dorico is missing a setting for these. All the maj7 options are for “minor or augmented chords” and there isn’t a setting for diminished. Definitely seems like an oversight that should be addressed.
At least in jazz, it doesn’t necessarily need to resolve. Here’s a phrase in one of my tunes where the changes are Gm9 - Ebmaj69 - A7(#9#5) - Abdim(maj7) and the dim(maj7) chord is the resolution.
As far as I’m concerned, if you take the possible extensions for a dim7 chord from the wholetone-halftone scale, there should be 4 possible additions: 9, 11, b13 and yes, maj7!
And as such, one could easily picture this maj7 (that really doesn’t have the function as in a regular maj7 or min(maj7) chord) to be written as: Fdim7(add maj7).
That is obviously horrible, so just in this case I could argue for the form of Fdim7(add#7) or even Fdim7(#7) , to make it perfectly clear to the sight reader that this is not your usual maj7, but a color note!
Normally, #7 is a no-no, of course…
But is clear that Dorico lacks the formatting for maj7/#7 as an extension…
Not that immediate intuitivity (love this new word!) is the sine qua non of chord symbols, but I’m wondering if this one would be less likely to trip me up on the bandstand and also serve clearly to get the desired results. (Somehow my brain trips a bit over the double chord sevenths with accidentals in the OP.)
I will say, though, that I’d really like the version @Sam_Derbyshire proposes in the OP (ᵒ7▵7), if it’s possible.
I personally avoid to write chord symbols extensions in my diminished 7 chords.
I prefer writing the notes I want to hear OR give the musician a free choice of extension.
Every extension of the 7th diminished chord look over written to me, especially the major 7th.
There is no solution in this comment, but that is the way I would manage that one.
To the extent that it might help the development team, if they are to add this chord to the list, I’ve often seen it notated as F°(ma7), where the Ebb is implied. Alternatively, I think E/F or Fb/F gets the same result in practical terms. In other words, a G13b9/F would imply the same octatonic set, right?
I agree that there’s something really awkward about my sketched symbol, as the “6” really is just the basic o7 of the chord, enharmonically respelled.
I tend to agree with @Jean-Francois_Aubin in the general sense that not over-cluttering chord symbols can be good (hence the adoption of “alt” to stand in for the palette of altered 5s and 9s).
But the distinction of adding a Maj7 to a dim really is important. In my experience, any jazz player will realize that the basic o7 remains a part of the available “sound constellation,” so for my money, this seems like the available Dorico default option that strikes the best balance between specificity and simplicity:
As I’ve said before elsewhere, what can happen in cases like this is that the simple tertian-based chord symbols can run up against the richer and more complex harmonies of more recent jazz and sometimes “hit a wall” in terms of usefulness. For me, they sometimes like a Procrustean Bed rather than always being a helpful guide to musicians, especially if we try to capture “everything” in the symbol.
Here’s a thread from last summer that hits on related issues:
, to make it perfectly clear to the sight reader that this is not your usual maj7, but a color note!
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