Direct channel routing in Ambisonics [not track routing]

[Lucky7]

Hi there,

I hope that someone can give me a hint or point to the right direction, as I’m currently struggling with Ambisonics channel routing (not track routing).
Nuendo (and Cubase) does a great job in handling and automated routing of Ambisonic signals. But freely routing (as what I’ve heard from Reaper or ProTools) is not possible. Routing from a higher channel configuration (Ambisonics, or 22.2, etc.) to a lower configuration (like stereo) is no problem and the channels can be assigned (not 100% freely without some hacks) to dedicated different channels. What I’d like to do is the opposite and route 1 mono signal to a dedicated channel (out of the 16 channels from 3rd order ambisonics). I’ve created 16 mono groups which are routed via send (not direct) to the 16 single HW channels of the Audio interface that have been assigned to the Ambisonics Main Bus. Checking the level meters doesn’t show me a single channel inside the Ambisonics Main Bus. The send channel has the highest volume level but the other channels do all have some sound data. I can understand such behavior, when sending a mono track to an Ambisonics track, due to the conversion from Mono to Ambisonics but not when the sound source is sent to a dedicated Ambisonics channel. Do I need to take a different approach?
So far, I haven’t found a VST3 plug-in that would do the job when routing a mono track to an ambisonics group.
Is there anyone around with the right idea?

[Dietz]

What are you trying to achieve, actually? Sending a signal to an individual Ambisonics channel hardly makes any sense, especially not in case of HOA. As you most certainly know, this is not like a purely channel-based format like Auro 3D, but a meta-format which expects signals to be encoded.

IOW: You will need a Ambisonics Encoder, most likely, e.g. the ones supplied with IEM’s free Suite.

[murrysdad]

Does the suite work with N12 I only see Reaper mentioned…

[Dietz]

@murrysdad

Does the suite work with N12 I only see Reaper mentioned

Yes, of course. Did you think I’d suggest tools here that don’t work in Nuendo?

Reaper is just the #1 DAW in academical circles for a number of reasons, even more so for audio research purposes and experimental audio processing.

[Lucky7]

Thanx for your time to answer me, so it doesn’t help me at all (sorry).

@Dietz

What are you trying to achieve

A more detailed sound arrangement. So, it does make sense…

@Dietz

As you most certainly know, this is not like a purely channel-based format like Auro 3D, but a meta-format which expects signals to be encoded.

I know that Ambisonics is not a channel based format like Dolby, etc. but you also know, that the different channels in Ambisonics do re-present a dedicated direction / area of the sound field, right? Ambisonics - Wikipedia
There shall be some VST tools available, but I’m looking for a solution inside Nuendo, instead of try and error with 3rd party plug-ins…

@Dietz

IOW: You will need a Ambisonics Encoder, most likely, e.g. the ones supplied with IEM’s free Suite.

No need for the IEM Plugin Suite. Nuendo does handle Ambisonics and IEM doesn’t help me for my purpose either. Please check Nuendo V12 here: What Is New in Nuendo 12 | Steinberg

BTW: The playback system doesn’t matter at all for me and my purpose …
[Don’t need to ask further about my purpose because if I want to tell it, I would have done so.]

[MAS]

@Lucky7

Don’t need to ask further about my purpose because if I want to tell it, I would have done so.

This is to be respected, of course. But please do not be surprised if you do not get any help or if it is not specific enough. My personal opinion is that you won’t find many people on this forum who know more about 3-D audio than @Dietz Dietz. So it can’t hurt to at least consider answering his questions…

[Kewl]

@Lucky7

you also know, that the different channels in Ambisonics do re-present a dedicated direction / area of the sound field, right?

Well, not exactly.

That being said, if I understand your question, it’s certainly possible to send a signal directly to a B-Format channel. For example, if you want the signal to come from everywhere/nowhere, the first channel (channel 0 in ambiX or W in FuMa) is the way to go. I did it recently for a show and it sorta worked. Check out the included NPR file: there’s a mono track sent directly to channel 0.

ambi_demo.npr (367.3 KB)

[Lucky7]

@Kewl
Yes, not exactly, so let’s keep it out here as the point is just the direct channel routing inside N12.
I thought pictures are not needed as the simple question should be easy to understand, like you did, but unfortunately not for others…
Thanx for your Demo-Project.
But the “PreUp01” group is missing which might be the key to it?

Inside Harpex-X (see above), there seems to be no way to manipulate single channels, which is the same for any of the IME tools (as far as I know so far…) inside the Ambisonics channels (16 within the 3rd order).
The routing is in your project the same as the standard (correct way of) routing inside Nuendo:

What I’ve done instead, to get single mono track’s to single Ambisonics channel’s, is, to send them into the dedicated “HW channel(s)” as below (without any direct routing):

In this example (for channel 0) the mono signal is send into Ambisonics channel “0” of the connected HW-I/F, but in fact, I’m using 16 mono tracks to be send to different Ambisonics channels.

In below example the routing of a Stereo signal is shown, where the Left channel has been swapped to the right and the right signal is cut.

This is, but much more flexible, what I’d like to do within Ambisonics, inside Nuendo, for experimental purpose…
[Hope this does answer also the question from @Dietz (my comments to your answer were not an affront, in case you, or anyone else thought so).]

This does work, when sending tracks direct to an Ambisonics connected HW channel, as shown below, where a signal has been sent directly to the channel 5. The signal processing inside Ambisonics does process and assign the signal correct.

But unfortunately, this way doesn’t provide any possibility, to further manipulate it, either as a single channel or inside the whole Ambisonics track, as I’d like to do. I don’t have any other DAW to really compare the direct routing possibilities, but as far as I know (maybe I’m wrong?), Reaper does offer such a possibility.
In Nuendo, routing manipulations are only possible within channel-based formats, as with another example for Quadro:

Here the left channel is combined with the Ls channel and the left channel output is disconnected.

I hope that this is explanation does help to understand, what I’m looking for, if there is some hack for that inside Nuendo …

[Kewl]

Yeah, well, for what you want, maybe you’ll have to migrate to Reaper…

[Lucky7]

@Kewl
BTW: a nice page: Ambisonic Studio (uqam.ca), will check it out later…

[Kewl]

Thanks. Mostly outdated nowadays, that’s why I redirect visitors to resources (knowledge, software) that are up-to-date.