Do you feel it's 'ethical' to report piracy?

Steinberg Lounge
1

No one dislikes snitches and tattle tales. They dislike getting caught.
So if you saw one person taking a shortcut through you neighbours, or your own, garden you might not bother but if scores of neighbours started doing it what would you do? Happened to a friend of mine. He was then picked on by all the neighbours for daring to complain. (Why? They took it to get to a local shop)

So. Changing the question, does the common practise of thievery mean that it’s no longer a crime? Does it mean that anyone who complains about widespread thievery is then a criminal?
So should we then put the artists behind bars for daring to complain and buy the thieves a drink?

If we have to question whether we should not be a snitch and let good ole thieves pinch our dinners then we just end up snivelling timid worms for a few years and die.
Stand up for yourself and snitch as it’s now not allowed to clout the b#ggers round the ear.
The pirates, if you dared hit them would be the first to snitch on you, mate.

2

Right, we’re humans, not robots.

We really don’t need to become a new Iron Curtain or East Germany, were half the population spies and reports on the other half, neightbor, friend or family, no difference.

And as far as I am concerned, intentionally leaving out or insinuating something is just as bad as lying.

In contrast, consider this. Big media corporations that in various ways steal from people (consumers, artists and other smaller corporations) and control so called “free” radio stations, streaming web sites in what they should/can play, etc. with absolutely no consequences, but someone that distributes 30 some songs end up with a half a million in fines…

3

From my own point of view, this whole music piracy business has somewhat of an ironic ring to it. A while back when visiting Finland (my home country), a friend of mine though he’d give me a present, what a surprise, it was a CD of an album I and my band had recorded a lifetime ago! Apparently freely available from some european website.

I recently did sign up with a music distribution company who were going to take a look at this but so far I’ve heard nothing. I could be a millionare and don’t know it :unamused: .

I do support the notion of ‘do the crime and be prepared to do the time’, but fair go, all within some sort reason. Don’t send them to the ‘colonies’ for stealing a loaf of bread (or a few CDs, or mp3s).


Mauri.

4

I grew up with a few thieves. They used to tell kids it was ok to… go into unoccupied houses, steal less than 50c worth of sweets, “find” bikes in the street and keep them for so long and they’re yours.
Simple stuff and that is what Pirate-bayers do. They say it’s “All right for your own consumption.” Or Ebayers who sell stun-guns and say “It’s legal if you don’t use it.” The Pirate bay probably made their money off hits or something unconnected, I don’t know but it’s the same rules. They tell users that “It’s OK” and a proportion of users will do it and, as everyone does, they will not get told off for getting away with a couple of pence less spent that weekend but round the back the buys who tell everyone “it’s ok” make serious money. Anyhow I think you’re getting the point but.
You try dropping litter in some parts of Europe or jay walking in New York.
Or one mile over the speed limit.
Thing is what laws do you follow? The government laws that have largely been studied fairly well or the guy on the corner who says “It’s OK”? with a snidey grin on his face that says “I’m one of you brother.”

5

In my previous post I failed to mention this friend in Finland paid pretty good money for my ancient ‘Album’, actually a CD. :open_mouth: .

Mauri.

6

It should be patently obvious by now that recorded music has no intrinsic worth and that the only way to recoup is by charging massive door prices for concerts and paraphernalia.

No matter what musicians will always lose unless they take matters into their own hands since if something is misused, eg. a cover of a song or content used in a promotion then the mere thought of being sued will more often than not serve as a deterrent.

Come what may, we can be sure that at some point the US will determine all works public domain if there is some reasonable (non-commercial) purpose because the media industry should not have a monopoly on ideas.

7

I think if someone reports piracy (back to the question in the OP) the pirate has no right to complain. How could they? I think the real question is whether it’s ethical to NOT report piracy. Maybe so (IMO) if it’s for the equivalent of the old cassette “mix-tape” idea. I used to get these from friends all the time - I heard music I’d never have heard before, and so consequently there was no way I’d ever buy the “album” without having heard the mixtape.

Did I buy a lot of albums as a result of mix tapes? No, but probably at least a few, and for the songs on the tape that I didn’t buy the album for, I at least heard and learned to really like groups I wouldn’t have otherwise*. Isn’t that worth something to the artist who (without the mixtape) was never going to sell an album to the listener anyway?

*Like"Catfood" on that King Crimson album. Oh, wait - that’s one I did buy!

8

Steve, no it’s not my old band mates, we’re still good friends and would definately not rip off each other.
I don’t really care anyway because I think we’re talking peanuts here, in my case. Rather glad to know someone thinks that old stuff’s worth something :wink: .

This all comes down to the idea of ‘Justice’ , there are many, majority I would say, people who would like to see justice done but the problem is, the powers that be are pretty much scared to death of the idea. IMHO.

Mauri.

9

These “crimes” are good because they keep the system running, like funding from states to manage schools, hospitals etc it’s all about oiling the wheels of democracy.

10

What I find interesting about the “sharing” issue is how many people who may have originaly cut their teeth on the rebellious origins of rock and roll now are openly willing to hate on their neighbors for listening to music. According to the copyright diehardists, everyone will have to contribute a few pence for even going to their friends house and listening to music. Its obvious that the revolutionary heart of rock and roll has at least in part been subsumed by the very same conservative fetishes of property/money/corporatism/class/war that rock and roll originaly took a stand against. There are some good lessons to be learned: Mainly, just because a person plays guitar doesn’t mean they’re cool. The Brianjonestown Massacre has a little fanclub anyone can join - “The Committee To Keep Music Evil”.

Fundamentalist forces want music creation and listening to be a crime, where else has such doctrine been the law?

11

There’s enough straw in this thread to make a bunch of straw men.

If only logic (not the DAW) and reason was as abundant as straw. As it stands, the straw men are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

12

Attempting to forbid music (art,books,information,scripture,songs of freedom,political opinion), limit it for certain, paying classes, (practices in 1500 called ‘indulgences’; the rich pay for heaven) is the heritage we receive straight from witch hunts, book burning, McCarthyism. That this issue is modernized and spun to make it look like the artists are being ripped off, boohoo, is how the modern misinformation war is implemented and the truth turned turned turned on its head. The artist has always been ripped off by the very ‘copyright’ owner class which seeks to play the victim now. All empires and dominating forces become more reationary and repressive as they reap their own demise.

13

And when a person defends the accused witch/artist/writer/healer from persecution and scapegoating, even in theoretical curiosity and socratic method, the defenders are labeled a heretic too. But this only says something about the narrow spectrum of ethical awareness the accusers live by; as if only in receiving reward can a person possibly have interest and empathy.

14

^^^
A veritable sea of straw
as far as the eye can see
straw, straw everywhere
straw where eyes should be.

15

Mockery in the spirit of loving trust is appropriate sometimes. But nothing good in this world tricles down from on high. Everything of real value springs from below. I mean, rock and roll springs from cotton pickin slaves for Christ sake.

16

The entire economic system as we know is built on others peoples efforts. Always has, going back forever. But somehow, the buck stops when little Xavier steals a candybar.

17

Here are a few bales worth:

It should be patently obvious by now that recorded music has no intrinsic worth and that the only way to recoup is by charging massive door prices for concerts and paraphernalia.

…

Come what may, we can be sure that at some point the US will determine all works public domain if there is some reasonable (non-commercial) purpose because the media industry should not have a monopoly on ideas

…

These “crimes” are good because they keep the system running, like funding from states to manage schools, hospitals etc it’s all about oiling the wheels of democracy.



What I find interesting about the “sharing” issue is how many people who may have originaly cut their teeth on the rebellious origins of rock and roll now are openly willing to hate on their neighbors for listening to music. According to the copyright diehardists, everyone will have to contribute a few pence for even going to their friends house and listening to music. Its obvious that the revolutionary heart of rock and roll has at least in part been subsumed by the very same conservative fetishes of property/money/corporatism/class/war that rock and roll originaly took a stand against. There are some good lessons to be learned: Mainly, just because a person plays guitar doesn’t mean they’re cool. The Brianjonestown Massacre has a little fanclub anyone can join - “The Committee To Keep Music Evil”.

Fundamentalist forces want music creation and listening to be a crime, where else has such doctrine been the law?

…

Attempting to forbid music (art,books,information,scripture,songs of freedom,political opinion), limit it for certain, paying classes, (practices in 1500 called ‘indulgences’; the rich pay for heaven) is the heritage we receive straight from witch hunts, book burning, McCarthyism. That this issue is modernized and spun to make it look like the artists are being ripped off, boohoo, is how the modern misinformation war is implemented and the truth turned turned turned on its head. The artist has always been ripped off by the very ‘copyright’ owner class which seeks to play the victim now. All empires and dominating forces become more reationary and repressive as they reap their own demise.

…

And when a person defends the accused witch/artist/writer/healer from persecution and scapegoating, even in theoretical curiosity and socratic method, the defenders are labeled a heretic too. But this only says something about the narrow spectrum of ethical awareness the accusers live by; as if only in receiving reward can a person possibly have interest and empathy.

Straw, and crap. Not that straw and crap are without use. European pioneers on the American frontier would take buffalo dung, mix it with straw, form it into blocks, let it dry in the sun and use the adobe to build primitive mud huts to live in. The indigenous peoples, called “primitives” by the Europeans, had more elegant solutions for their shelters. Ironic, isn’t it?

18

“I’d also distribute some songs to the guys in my band as ‘homework’ …the one’s we were wanting to do as ‘cover tunes’…all the while not even considering I was doing anything ‘wrong’.” ~Steve

The entire history of music is a pass-it-along shared phenomenon. That is until now, where sharing music is a crime. The entire cosmos is one gigantic sharing phenomenon, both animate and inanimate, organic and inorganic, except for some subspecies of hominids lost on the edge of nowhere, where for some of them sharing is a crime. Property and the inevitable destruction that follows the always violent aquisition of property, is an ideological virus designed to consume the cooperative spirit of humankind. Those who’ve locked themselves up in their shadowy castles, defending their nothingness against the hoards of free folks who “aren’t going to take it anymore”, are naturally, starving for the blinding light they perceive just now peaking over the horizon.

19

The initial statement in the above paragraph is incorrect. It is certainly NOT true of the entire history of music.


As for the rest of it, that’s the kind of thinking that led to the cold-blooded murder of Millions. The thinking of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Karl Marx, and Hitler. As for “blinding light” … I recall a saying: If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull$hit."

I’m done here. The air reeks with bafflement.

20

Eerily similar to the recent roadside billboards they erected in the USA asking “Charles Manson believes in climate change. Do You?”