I don’t think using VE Pro will help in this case: it is the sheer weight of the switches in the Symphonic Riot expression map that causes the slow-down, and that impact will be felt whether you are using VE Pro or loading Vienna Instruments directly in Dorico.
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Hi Daniel, this is very interesting and I wonder if you can elaborate a little further. When you say that Dorico is updating playback data, do you mean it scans only the key switches that have been used in the score, or that it scans every single switch in the EM’s, searching for the ones that are actually being used in the score? From what I can see in the file Xenophon provided, he’s only using a small number of the switches available in his EM. Just curious about this as I have large numbers of switches in my EM’s too, and although I generally don’t experience slow downs, when things do start lagging I would be interested to know whether deleting unused entries is recommended and would really make a big difference. Thank you
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Is the bit that takes the time, is what he’s saying.
When Dorico is calculating which switches to use for each region that requires different combinations of playback techniques, it has to look at all of the switches in the expression map to find the closest matching one. We haven’t had a chance to profile the project in this thread to find out precisely where the time is being taken, but it seems very likely that it’s the iteration over the switches in the expression map to find the best combination (which can require multiple passes through the switches) that’s taking the time.
I am also an enthousiastic user of the Articulate Map by Symphonic Riot because with this preset I can do in Dorico 80 - 90% of my mockup by editing the score in terms of note length and music symbols (dynamics, articulations, playback techniques) using the appropriate Dorico short cuts. So I can feel like a conductor preparing the parts of his musicians, and I can see at a glance in the full score what I have done (see the example below). Only for the rest of 10 - 20% of my work I have to act as sound engineer at his mixing desk using the automation lanes where I only can see clearly the changes if I select a single instrument.
But what is more important, with the Riot Articulate Map I get especially for the strings better results than using VSL Strings Pro with its comparatively poor expression maps.
This makes the restrictions caused by the sluggish performance all the more regrettable! So I will describe in more detail what is happening, hoping that the Dorico team preferably together with the developer of Symphonic Riot will find solutions to alleviate these issues.
I am working on a Mac mini M2 Pro, 32 GB, 2 TB. In Dorico I use VEPro, only Galley view, only one tab open (Full score), no condensing.
A remarkable slow-down starts on my machine with projects containing more than 5000 notes. It does not matter if the 5000 notes are in a project with 10 or 30 instruments.
I finished a Haydn concerto with about 13000 notes. Every edit and every playback took about 7 seconds.
Editing notes in instruments temporarily changed to the Standard expression map: Same delay.
The second movement has its own flow and contains about 2000 notes in less instruments: Same delay there!
Hardly noticeable difference (maybe 6 sec. delay) when using an instrument filter overlay with just 2 instruments.
Opening an extra tab with one instrument: No delay at all in editing and playback.
This leads to the question: Why must Dorico update ALL playback data of ALL flows if I set a simple staccato on a single note in Full score and makes me wait 7 seconds, even if this note is assigned to an instrument with Standard expression map, and makes me wait a further 7 seconds after starting the playback even if only for one instrument?
I am very glad that the Dorico team is aware of the problem. My question is: Is the Dorico team willing and planning to work on a solution in the near future or further away?
If not, I will have to temporarily split every bigger project into sub-projects with less than 5000 notes.
Here is a comparison of 12 bars of the Haydn concerto: on the left the original score, on the right the editing of the notes for the Articulate Map.
Comes pretty close to the sound of a live orchestra without using automation lanes.
So, when you change to a standard EM for all your instruments, do you save with the new EM, quit, reopen Dorico and get the same lag? How about if you use the ‘Silence’ playback template - What happens then?
Some more observations:
Deactivating project: same delay
All string instruments to Standard EM, winds remain assigned to Articulate Map: half delay (about 3 sec.). It makes no difference if I save and reopen the project or not.
Templates Silence, Iconica Sketch, NotePerformer: no delay
Conclusion: The delay depends only and alone on the number of notes that are assigned to the Articulate Map (as Daniel said), no matter if the project is activated or not, no matter if I edit notes that are not assigned to the Articulate Map.
If Dorico team cannot find a solution to go more efficiently through the Articulate Map the only solution is: The Riot Symphonic company offers a set with different Articulate Maps with less switches. Instead of 1500 switches a classical orchestra could do with maybe 500. There is no ponticello, no harmonics, very seldom muted strings, no harp etc.
Make a copy of your Articulate expression map. On the copy, delete the switches you do not use.
You could even split it onto different maps for strings, winds, brass etc. All you need then is to assign the new maps to your instruments.
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re my response above: In my project I only use few staves and three instruments. I believe the slow response is caused by some issues in graphics. Sometimes I need to move my mouse in order for new entries to happen. Is this possible? I use multiple monitors on Mac Studio, Ventura 13.5.1. My project attached, thanks
pianofonia-score-fin.dorico.zip (2.4 MB)
Hi @michalrataj I tried your file on my Macbook M2, and everything is quite instantaneous in the editing. Does your issue happen also with only one display connected? Do you use (expensive) Apple cables to connect your displays?
…check the video I posted above (November 2023) in this same thread 
hello @Christian_R - it seems all works fine on my Laptop and it worked recently fine on the MacPro 2013 with the Dorico 4. Honestly I have no ideat about what are the expensive apple cables, my HDMI are not cheap, yet standard good quality cables I think. This issue is only happening in Dorico (next to standard pro stuff like Pro Tools, MAX, Reaper etc … You’re right I may try disconnecting more monitors and work on the one only. thanks