Dorico built-in HSSE sound patch issues (wind instruments only)

When talking about wind instruments, I am afraid that the loudness (or velocity) of (most of) these patches don’t respond with CC1 (Mod Wheel) and CC11 dynamics. I really can’t figure out a way to let hairpins control the loudness.

P.S.: I didn’t test brass instruments.
P.P.S.: The “Ethno World” in the screenshot was made by converting a pirated copy of Ethno World 3 (GIGA) into HALion (Sampler) 6. This is only for my self-use purposes. Since I already purchased Ethno World 5 prior to the release of Dorico 1, I have no license issues to use it. However, NI Kontakt now has VST3 version, and I guess I don’t need to use this HALion Sonic SE patch anymore. :slight_smile:

Try using the default expression map. It uses velocity and CC7 for dynamics. Basic and Artist libraries use CC 7 for channel volume, CC 11 for expression volume, CC 1 for vibrato. etc. It is very similar to General MIDI. One may also use the Velocity and CC11 expression map, but you’ll probably want to pull the Mixing console faders up pretty high in that case.

It simply doesn’t respond to CC#11.

If the patch isn’t programmed to respond to CC11, then you’ll hear no audible change when you manipulate that controller value.

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Thanks for your explanation.
It’s still a little bit weird as one of those patches supplied in Dorico.
Looks like the only solution is to use HALion (Sampler) 6 to modify these patches if the VST team in Steinberg is not going to update them for haripins in Dorico.

Moving the issue discussion to this thread now:

Sadly I am 2,000 miles from home and cannot check things but here are.some thinga to check. 1. Double check.that you have the latest version of HSSE installed. 2. In the options tab of HSSE try toggling the GENERAL MIDI option. 3. Test a stave using some of the instruments from the Basic Library (they will have GM in their name). It is possible that some instruments in the Basic and Artist libraries ignore expression volume. Most will have vibrato on CC1. 4. If you cannot get expression volume working it is possible to use CC 7 for the hair pins and such in Dorico. One can also scale.the.min and max volume in a Dorico expression map. Some of the Artist instruments are ALSO velocity sensitive. … As for editing the instruments in H6 to accept.different mod matrices…I might can help but it’ll be a few weeks until Iam back at the DAW. Not sure I can export new HSSE presets with the macro screen entact but I will give it a try.

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Sorry about the terrible typos and formatting. Return/enter doesn’t send line feeds on this Android tablet…ugg. In my experience the Default expression map while tweaking Dorico’s playback settings usually does pretty well with Artist library instruments. If exporting a standard MIDI file is the goal, try the GM instruments in the Basic Library while GM mode is toggled on. Note…in GM mode HSSE also accepts RPN events (such as tuning, pitch bend range, etc.), program changes, etc.

Exporting audio stems are my goal. The patch I am using (as the screenshot in the 1st post of this thread) simply has no loudness response to CC#11 or CC#1.

I see. The basic library has a variety of flute/pipe sounds. AFAIK they are GM compatible. Use the search bar in HSSE with the keyword GM. Make sure you have the library set to Basic or All. The flutes will be in the 70s range (GM program numbers). Use a Velocity + CC11 expression map. If you also want GM program changes in the exported SMF file you can add those in the play tab CC lanes…or…you can do different expression maps per stave and send program and bank changes in the initialization phase. Again…if HSSE is in GM mode, it will accept program changes (bank change means nothing though). One can change what HSSE calls by assigning a number and rating (see HSSE manual for details). Oh, in GM mode. I think channel 10 has to be a drum set.

And if you don’t need GM MIDI file exports…just try the Default.expression map. That will use CC7 for hair pins. Velocity changes can also.effect the attack sound of some instruments.

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Thanks for your trick. The Default expression map works well.

The GM Mode force-replaced all of my loaded instruments (which is really terrible seeing all channels except channel 10 are replaced to acoustic piano).