Double charging Cubase users.

And still no discount option for Cubase Pro users! Steinberg obviously is content being one of the few software companies who doesn’t mind charging it’s users repeatedly for the same pierces of software. A little less greed would most likely increase your sales!

I would argue that WaveLab and Cubase are not the same pieces of software. If they were the same piece of software, why would you need both?

I think a WaveLab Artist version could be useful and more affordable to some users but I’m sure Steinberg has weighed the cost/value ratio of developing a mid-level version of WaveLab.

Well… There is certainly a lot of overlap between Wavelab and Cubase. Wavelab sure has some things that Cubase users will appreciate, but not at the full price.

I myself have the full Cubase Pro version, and would be happy to pay around half the price for Wavelab to add it to my “toolbox”. I would even pay half the price for a “Wavelab Artist” version. However - There is really no way I am going to buy the full Wavelab version for the full price. The amount of stuff it adds to Cubase is simply not enough to justify the price in this case.

For now I am using Wavelab Elements 8 (I think I will be upgrading to 9, but probably not that soon), but it is a bit too restricted (example: only 3 audio channels, come on). The plugin restriction is not that bad, because I use Ozone for that last stage as that is a “plugin with plugins” if you catch my meaning. But still… It’s too “small”.

Anyway - I would certainly buy an more beefy “WaveLab Artist” version if it was available, or Wavelab Pro for a reduced (half) price. No doubt about that. But WaveLab Pro for the full price… Nope…

Completely agree with you (JClosed) I feel the same way.
I don’t use Izotope so 5 slots is not enough for me. I’ll wait for the demo but I think I will stick to elements 7.

Apologies - but I simply do not understand the “greed” angle you keep pitching. It’s not PG’s concern (or fault) that you decided to buy Cubase.

Seems your choices are:

  1. Get off your wallet
  2. Or stick with what you have.

If you do not like the product or take issue with it’s pricing - don’t buy it. Or better yet - call Steinberg and complain to someone there.

But whining about it in here - on v9 launch day no less - in hopes that anyone else will join your pity party - is really lame.

Is this really the best you can come up with to post today?


I’ve never claimed that Cubase and WaveLab is the same piece of software. Of cause it ain’t.

The following plug-ins are distributed with both Cubase and Wavelab. These are identical!
Brickwall Limiter
RoomWorks SE
Tube Compressor

They constitute a substantial part of the price of the software packages. Understand that when you purchase a software package, you don’t buy the software itself. You buy a license to use it! Every buyer of Cubase Pro or WaveLab Pro has paid for these licences once already. I don’t think that it’s honest by Steinberg to request that we should pay for the products we’ve already paid for once a second time. We have already paid for these licences once! I hope that’s enough repetition.

This is what I claim is greed, charging two, tree or more times for the same products (all those plug-in). This is what justifies the request for a discounted price of WaveLab for registered Cubase Users, and vice versa!

Waves and UAD (just to mention two companies) respect their customers. Both have a policy that if you buy a single plug-in, and then buy a bundle where the plug-in is included, you get reimbursed for your original purchase. Apparently, they have realised that it’s bad for business to double (or triple) charge their customers.

Be careful with what accusations you throw out. PG has got nothing what so ever to do with this issue. He’s the developer, not the head of Steinbergs marketing department.

It most definitely is. I think you should keep your whining and insults to yourself. You may think that you’re helping Steinberg by self-appointing yourself as a opinion-police. I assure you, you don’t.

Steinberg claim to be listening to it’s customers. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t, but they sure don’t need your help!

I 've owned several Steinberg products through the years.I never saw a discount for loyal customers,early buyers,combining products,etc.Only grace periods and small discounts on selected (not important) things.I remember buying Cubase IC pro for 50% discount just to find that it discontinued 2 months later.
Sad but true… :frowning:

It is not my experience that the listed plugins constitute the most substantial part of Wavelab. I hardly use any of them, and would never have bought a software license for Wavelab for the standard plugins. The environment, the surgical tools (like the spectrum editing, analysis tools, post filter, sonnox plugins) and the authoring tools are what makes the price justified to me.

As have I. But this is business (Steinberg) - and I (as customer) do not expect special treatment.

It’s real simple - it’s on me if I want to move forward with any new app upgrade. If I like what I see (features, pricing, anything) I buy it. If something bugs me or doesn’t represent good value - I don’t.

But ranting on a forum about how a company does their business - that’s none of my business.

If they do throw me a bone once in while - I consider it a bonus.

Q: Do Wavelab Pro (full version) owners start ranting in the Cubase Forum (with titles like “Double Charging Wavelab Users”) about getting special pricing when a Cubase upgrade comes along? Or the Nuendo boards?


You actually believe that these old tired dinky plugins represent the true value of a major version upgrade like v9?

One can easily read all about the new features and design in Wavelab Pro 9 and easily see that their upgrade fee is going directly towards all the hard work that PG clearly put into the new version.

Nowhere in the v9 marketing material is there any mention of the plugins you list. That they are bundled with each version of WL has zero bearing on anything - they are included so a new user has something to work with if they have nothing else to use.

To me - they represent (almost) zero value when compared with bigger suites I use daily like iZotope, UA or Waves.

Trying to justify the repeated appearance of this tired group of ultra generic 10+ year old plugins as being some sort of primary reason to use WL or a “money grab” or greedy or - especially a barrier to upgrading is a bit daft.

Let’s give PG a little more credit than that :slight_smile:


I criticise Steinberg for this and that - because generally I like their offerings a lot, rely on them daily and have 2x Cubase Pro, Nuendo, 2x Halion, Wavelab and so on … there is one area I never criticised them: pricing. For the quality and performance their products are modestly priced IMO.

+1. From what I am hearing about 9 already (I have not installed yet) - it’s already shaping up to be a fantastic purchase.

And I must say - I have had my moments with Steiny as well - but I think the 124CDN I paid today (upgrade) is an absolute bargain for something of this complexity and value.


Programs like Reaper and Presonus Studio One offer mastering capabilities within the DAW.
So the new feature of integrating wavelab into cubase got me interested.

But it’s to pricey imo. Over 1000€ vs. 370€ (Studio One) … no thanks.

I think the mastering features in Studio One are very basic. Something that might work for somebody that has to master a few albums per year at most, but not something I could work in everyday like I can with WaveLab.

I think WaveLab Pro 9 is an extremely fair price, and clearly the best option for professional mastering on OS X. Windows has a few more options but anything that rivals WaveLab on Windows is easily double the price.

I’ve always also looked at the cost/return value when purchasing any software or hardware for the studio. Wavelab for us paid for itself within a day, or it did when bought new. The upgrade price is not really worth a consideration, simply a no brainer based on what I’m seeing in terms of initial feedback. If the price is an issue then simply don’t buy it. But to complain its not worth it or that certain plugs are mirrored as an argument on pricing is somewhat missing the point. Its either worth it to you or it isn’t. I personally think its value at twice the price for all its capabilities plus the excellent support PG provides.

Please guys, you’re getting seriously OT here! Whether or not WaveLab is worth it’s asking price, or if PG is a good buy, is another discussion for another thread. This one deals with if it’s O.K. that Steinberg charges twice for the same software!.

Hi Svenne, You remarked in your OP re the lack of discount for Cubase Pro users like yourself and suggest its down to ‘greed’ and also state in your later post that discussing WL’s value is for another discussion/thread. How does one respond to your OP if discussing the why, in regard to its asking price/value/duplicated software is off the table? Your OP doesn’t appear to be asking a question, it reads as a statement. I’m politely responding to that statement.

Your last post below is framed as a question and what I’m assuming your OP intended to say. Please forgive me if I’m wrong. Its a good question. :slight_smile:

and to that I respond; my view is that I personally have no problem with the replication of plugins as per the list you’ve posted. I’ve always seen them as freebies as have tended to use other 3rd party plugins. Its the other functionality I bought the software for plus the level of support provided. I own multiple licences for Cubase Pro and Nuendo and don’t feel cheated in any way. Wavelab gets a lot of use here with functionality that doesn’t exist in either Cubase or Nuendo. I hope that clears things up in term of where I’m coming from. Have a great day. If I’m still not getting it, no problem :slight_smile:


In principle I agree that a discount would certainly go a long way toward the Steinberg appreciation index :smiley:

The old truth is that demand dictates price. As long as people keep paying for WL at the charged price, nothing will change. If sales start dropping – watch the discounts, sales etc pop up…

To get specific about whether a plugin adds ??% to the final price and therefore identical plugins necessitates a 50% reduction is not correct.

The counter argument is that the Full Price = Program Functionality and the plugins are FREE. :mrgreen:

The problem with this argument is: they don’t! There are at least two people, in this thread only, who has declared that they won’t buy WaveLab, as long as they are being double-charged! Steinberg would most likely sell them by the truckload (maybe a small exaggeration, but you get the drift), to Cubase Pro users if they addressed this problem.

There is definitely a demand, but not at the price of being double-charged. It’s rather simple really. How do Steinberg make the most money? By selling 1000 units at half price, or by selling 0 units at full price? Remember that those who will be eligible for the discount already has paid for a substantial part of WaveLab Pro.

You’re right, but the discount need to be substantial, since the duplicated plug-ins constitutes a substantial part of WaveLab. It’s up to Steinbergs marketing department to make this judgement. If they get it right, Steinberg will make make money. If they get it wrong, sales will not increase.

The elephant in the room here is that… If the plug-ins were free, they would all have been included with WaveLab Elements (and Cubase Elements and Artist). They aren’t, so they are clearly not free.

It is incredulous that you simply refuse to understand how meaningless these plugins are in the grand scheme of things. Wavelab’s true value and power has nothing to do with it’s supplied plugins. I think most of us would buy Wavelab even if it had no plugins included. I know I would.

More importantly - you are totally speculating on everything from potential sales to what you think is going on in Steinberg’s marketing department. Truth is - you have no idea how Steinberg works, how much cash flow they generate or anything else concrete.

C.Lyde hit it on the head. As long as PG continues to deliver - the gang will be there for him. Paying whatever is asked.

Me personally - I have paid at least 5 times for WL and feel nothing in the way of being “Quintuple” charged. It’s the cost of staying in the game and that’s it. I choose to stay in the game. 99.9% of us have no issue with this at all.

Reality bites (for you and that one “other” guy) but it is what it is.