I’m using Dorico 4 Pro, Windows 10 and EastWest Opus Gold collection.
In the past I’ve used Orchestral Tools successfully in Dorico and the sounds map beautifully using the expression maps I created. However, with EastWest, I’m getting weird results. I added the expression maps for several KS expression maps, one in particular being the ‘1st Violins KS Master’. However, even though I correctly mapped the keyswitches, instead of legato on my first few bars or Violin I, I’m getting ‘Sus Marc LITE’ which is clearly showing in the playing techniques area. I’m assuming that the phrase marks in the notation are driving which articulation is used, since there doesn’t appear to be a way to edit what has been assumed by Dorico. I tried double-clicking on the ‘Sus Marc LITE’ to change it to legato, but that doesn’t appear to be an option. Yes, I made sure my endpoints are mapped correctly too. I’m lost. Like I said, the Orchestral Tools expression maps are working great. I tried switching in the map from C3 to C4 as middle ‘C’ but that made no difference either.
After pasting all the images below, I finally swapped the keyswitch setting for ‘Leg Slur MAX’ which is supposed to be D0 and Sus Marc LITE which is supposed to be C#0. So, now ‘Sus Marc LITE’ is set to D0 and ‘Leg Slur MAX’ is set to C#0 in the expression map and it works, but I’m confused as to why, because according to the offical settings in the Opus Player as you can see in the image below, ‘Leg Slur MAX’ should be D0 but it’s only working with C#0.
Hi. I read your post. I was just wondering. Were you using Orchestral Tools Expression Maps with Kontakt or SINE. I’m trying to setup a template which will hopefully be maybe a combination of Opus and Berlin instruments. Have you seen this https://www.babylonwaves.com/
They have special keyswitched presets instruments designed speciffically for Opus Instruments which you could Import into Dorico and then assign a ‘natural’ technique to a sustained instrument and take it from there. It’s a very comprehensive set of expression maps which might be worth a look unless you prefer to build your own of course. If you do have any kontakt based maps for any OT stuff i would be interested in having a look if you wanted to share them. No stress. I’m going to try and have a go but any pointers on how to setup OT libraries with CC and keyswitching etc, would be greatly received. Hope you solve your problem. It’s amazing how much time you can lose trying to set all of this up! Well worth it when it actually works though. Cheers Simon.
Yes, I was using Orchestral Tools Berlin Inspire 1 and so far it has the most authentic sounds and the best control with articulations, but it was a bear to figure out how to get it to work… not the most friendly interface in the world, but it sounds great and the articulations seem to work best with what I’ve written… better than BBCSO and way better than EastWest Opus Gold. However, I used the SINE Player from OT, not the Kontakt plugin.
I hesitate to pay over $90 for a huge collection of expression maps from babylonwaves.com especially when I probably will only ever use maybe 20% of them and it’s not that hard to enter them in Dorico and you only have to do it once.
In particular, I’m having major problems getting the expression maps for EW to work with Dorico… Part of the problem is that there are two items simply titled ‘Opus’, one obviously VST3 and one VST2 but no way to know which, which is frustrating, without experimentation… I’ve tried both and still can’t get some of the expression maps to work correctly, even though I’ve meticulously transcribed the setting from the Opus Player into the Dorico expression maps. The expression maps for BBCSO work better with Dorico than the equivalent set of maps for EW with Dorico. The sad thing is EW has the largest set of instruments and is extremely good integration with Studio One, which is why I’m trying so hard to get EW expression maps to work. I have a ticket in with EW to try to figure it out.
It’s a little annoying because when I get off work from my day job at a major bank in I.T., I would like to quit dealing with techie stuff, but music software has gotten way complicated and almost demands a degree in I.T. Or maybe it seems like it’s complicated because I tend to overthink things sometimes?
I suspect what Opus is showing you is wrong for the patch you have loaded. Patches do vary, and I know there are OPUS String patches, and there are also Hollywood String patches and it is the patch itself that has the final say on what keys it responds to.
FWIW I don’t like using the Keyswitch patches in EW for various reasons. The biggest is that I was getting a meh “dated” sound. I blamed EW at first (and bought some other libraries) but what I’m finding is that there is like half a TB of just string samples that I wasn’t using - that I COULD indeed find the sound I needed for a certain section of a piece if I left the KS patches behind and started looking around at what was provided.
So… my current EW expression maps use channels instead, EG; Legato is on 3 so that I can swap my choices without touching the maps. And if the patches use a different CC for vibrato or whatever, I do the translation/mapping in a preset for the patch so again the expression maps don’t have to change.
Keep or Sweep sir…
Hi. I would be interested in seeing your expression maps if you would care to share.one or go a bit deeper into explaining how you’re using the patches. I’ve tried creating maps with single articulations back when I was using Ew Hollywood Gold in play but I couldn’t get it to sound the way I like with the limitations of only one mic and not really being the greatest at using reverb in orchestral templates. I purchased Opus and think it sounds a lot better. I was going to try the Babylon waves Cubase Maps which I think use mainly key switches but it would be great to see how you’re implementing single patches and assigning CC’s etc. It’s a lot of work to set all of this up and I find myself constantly building templates and not getting much music done. Cheers Simon
I know I’m not addressing everything in your post, but I don’t know why you would need to use reverb in a template. Reverb is usually applied at the very end just before the final mix goes to the master fader. You wouldn’t normally apply reverb to individual patches. I believe the new mixer may have the ability to add reverb to the final mix. If not, it would certainly be easy enough to port everything into Cubase or some other Daw as long as you are not worried about the notation being messed up.
I will get back to you later tonight. Right now I’m going for a run.
Simon, the original post contains pictures of the expression map and associated screens for 1st Violins KS Master in EW Opus Gold. Everything there should clarify what you’re asking.
But when I click on the keys in the piano below the keyswitches on the player tab, they show the same key values as what’s specified in the keyswitch settings for each articulation. So, either whoever put the data in their articulations database really screwed up or I’m doing something fundamentally wrong. The thing is, the EW keyswitch settings work fine in Presonus Studio One Pro 5.5, so why not in Dorico 4?
I think I may have figure it out. Unfortunately, there are two (2) items named ‘Opus’ (exactly the same), where one is obviously a VST2 plugin and one is a VST3 plugin. I mapped to the bottom one which apparently is the correct, more up-to-date one of VST3! I have tried to figure out in the preferences how to block the VST2, but it only gives an option to block all or allow all. This used to work better in Dorico 3.5, but it appears something got changed.
Can anyone tell me how to selectively block or allow each individual VST2 plugin? It doesn’t seem to matter if I block all or allow all. Either way, both ‘Opus’ items show up when I go to add a VST in the rack.
Okay, just now Dorico crashed for the first time ever for me. Some instability has been introduced in version 4. All I was doing was browsing through the preferences and all of a sudden, Dorico simply closed. Dorico 3.5 Pro was extremely stable.
Earlier tonight (see all comments above) I was briefly able to get the expression maps for EW Opus Gold working, but then like five minutes later they stopped working.
Also, I finally got the VST2 plugins blocked, but I don’t think they’re really blocked because my expression maps are still not working, so I’m left wondering which version of the VST is EW Opus Gold using?
I’d be willing to share my email with you, but not sure how and keep it private.
At this point I’m exhausted. I didn’t have this many problems with Dorico 3.5 Pro and I’ve only been using 4.0 Pro for a few weeks. I’m seriously thinking about going back to 3.5 Pro until 4.0 has most of the bugs worked out.
We’d be happy to look into the crash you’ve experienced if you do Help > Create Diagnostic Report and attach the resulting zip file here.
Back to the original issue… expression map not working… specifically 1st Violins KS Master in EW Opus Gold instrument library. I’ve attached the expression map file I created for this instrument in Dorico 4 Pro (I didn’t import it)…
What is wrong with the expression map file? The notes in my score are simple quarter notes with a slur over them, which in my book, should be played legato , but that’s not happening… they’re playing back as Sus Marc LITE (C#0), not correctly as Leg Slur MAX (C0). Please reference the images above and the one below.
EW ST 1st Violins KS Master.xml (14.0 KB)
The original extension was .doricolib, but the upload wouldn’t accept that, so I changed it to .xml.
Yes, I know the ‘legato’ over the notes is redundant, but I put the indication there to maybe get the keyswitch working.
Don’t do that. Just put it in a zip file.
Looking at the xml, your playback technique legato is set to Sus Marc LITE (C#1) [C4=60]
Leg Sur Max (D1) is set to marcato.
So re-upload it in a zip?
Yes, if you want people to help (it’s tough ploughing through the xml!)