Asking this another way: Is Eucon control the only way to select a track’s VST instrument without touching the mouse at all?
Hi,
Do you mean the open the Instrument track’s Instrument window? This is possible even vids Key Command.
No, I mean to navigate/cycle through plugins for the selected track and choose which one you want without ever touching the mouse. I implemented adding an instrument track or opening the assigned instrument’s window through Remote MIDI in testing already, but I can’t find any way to actually select what instrument is assigned to the track using Remote MIDI or anything else besides Eucon.
I validated this is possible on an iPad using the Eucon app … you can create a new instrument track and then choose/change what instrument is assigned to that track without ever touching a mouse. Can this be done in any other way besides using Eucon control?
I greatly want this functionality somehow through Remote MIDI, a way to navigate Cubase completely without a mouse while composing, but for the moment I just want to understand if using Eucon control is at present the only way to do this.
Thank you very much,
Mickey
Basically, I want to understand what my next hardware purchase has to be based on what Cubase 12 supports. If the only way to make this happen is Eucon, then I need to go buy an iPad until I can get an Avid S1 across the border on my next trip, which has a 19% customs penalty if I get caught. So between ~$2300 to $2550.
But if this can be achieved through Remote MIDI or combination of other features, I can instead focus on a cheaper bidirectional motorized fader solution, along with some method of controlling plug-in parameters with a mouse-based knob (since AI doesn’t work that way and who knows how long it will for developers to implement it solidly).
I’m trying to get clear answers on what Cubase supports, because I (like thousands of other users) know exactly what we want, we just need to understand what Steinberg supports and intends to, because it makes a significant difference to our pocketbooks and our workflows.
I don’t know how else to get these answers, so I appreciate when Steinberg can be clear about these things.
Thanks,
Mickey
Hi,
Are you talking about an Instrument or an Audio plug-in, please?
Just Instruments for the moment. The add Instrument Track window doesn’t respect the Focus Back/Forward functions, and even keyboard tab between fields doesn’t work, let alone the mouse wheel or arrow keys for the instrument drop-down. I can’t find anywhere to simply add/select/change a specific track instrument without using the mouse, except Eucon so far.
I’m completely open to learning any other way to achieve this without a mouse, even if something can be coded through the Remote API, but I can find nothing that seems to provide a way to do this at all.
Thank you Martin
Just wanted to follow up on this.
Is there anything at all that I’m missing? Is there any way at all to do this in Cubase 12 without Eucon?
This post had a great idea as well, and I could certainly make use of it as an alternative, though I’m sure at present there is nothing in Cubase like this either:
Smartphone applications. Metagrid, Touch portal, that kind of stuff.
You can create a button on the phone’s/tablet’s screen that will go through each step.
- Sends keystroke of “Add Track → Instrument”
- Clicks on “Instrument”
- Writes “Plug-in’s name”
- Presses Enter Twice.
You set up one button per favorite instrument, once.
Cost: Around 15 euros
Edit: There’s also the excellent Avid remote app that works on tablets and phones if you need Eucon.
Hi @ggmanestraki
If #3 in that list is possible at all, it seems like a deskop app of some sort might actually be a better fit. However, without automating a mouse to find the drop=down list for instruments, and there being no tab functionality in the add instrument box to select the drop down list, I’m wondering if anyone has actually implemented this exact scenario with any of those programs. It doesn’t seem like any of these would work since the Cubase UI itself doesn’t provide that navigation path, unless I’m completely missing something.
But maybe in that vein, if that possibility does exist by leveraging API calls that can do that where the UI itself can’t directly, that could be a potential option, but can anyone confirm that? I haven’t seen anything that does that yet.
Yes, if Eucon is the only way to do this, then my intent is to figure out how to get an Avid S1 across the border, since I’m stuck in Mexico for the time being, and can move in that direction by getting an iPad in advance. But that is an expensive goal with potentially significant consequences to attempt, and I would first like configuration from Steinberg or someone who has actually done this that can confirm with certainty whether there is or is not any way to accomplish this without either Eucon or a mouse. If this can be done with an iPad app that is not Eucon, I’d really like to understand how … what can an app do that would not be available to do in any other way? If the apps are leveraging the API to do something like this, how? Has anyone actually done this?
Thank you,
Mickey
The avid app IS Eucon. And it runs on Android too. It’s also free. Just download it and try it out.
I do this all day, I’m not hypothesizing here, I’m just telling you how it works. These apps can send mouse clicks, type whole strings, wait on a timer and much more. You can have a button named “Paragraph” that types in a paragraph’s worth of words into your notepad or track name for example. They’re also very easy to use. The one I’m using on android is touch portal, and it has a free version that gives you a single page of up to 110 buttons I think. The paid version ~15 euros, lets you have unlimited pages of 110 buttons.
I prefer the 3rd party, 2nd device approach instead of having all on my desktop. The way I look at it is the following: The ideal thing would be if Cubase could do all this (type strings, wait, click anywhere / navigate any pop-up window). The point is, for various reasons we’re not there yet. So instead of having another desktop application fight with Cubase over keyboard shortcuts and the like (like AHK for example), I prefer to have a tablet that uses Cubase’s shortcuts, interjecting those crucial steps in the middle. (Click here, wait a bit, write this or that) Moreover, I have assigned many many keycommands to F keys beyond F12, up to F19 especially for the tablet application. It’s very easy to maintain this setup. I don’t know, it feels easy and intuitive to me. Each one is different.
Edit: A small clarification for touch portal in particular. The whole setup and creation of the pages takes places on the desktop computer, of course. You don’t sit and build all the buttons and macros on the phone/tablet, that would be ridiculous! 
I can recommend a StreamDeck for running macro’s, Cubase key commands and MIDI Control/Program Change commands with Cubase.
There are many StreamDecks available used on second hand market.
They are extremely flexible, they can be tailored to do pretty much anything you want.
And with MIDI Remote in Cubase improving, it is increasing the potential of StreamDeck every single update.
@ggmanestraki
Hey, yeah - if you read through my post, I’ve already validated that using the Avid Eucon app works. I’ve done it. It’s what tells me there is at least some method of doing it at all. And ultimately it will great if I can get an Avid S1 into Mexico while I’m stuck here for the next couple of years.
But two things: if I wanted to go that route of using anything on an iPad at all, it would solely be for getting an Avid S1. I want faders and hardware under my finger, I’ve tried iPad based stuff, I just can’t use it, it provides zero sensory feedback, which doesn’t bother some people, but it just doesn’t work for me. It’s why the Raven stuff is also not on my list for DAW control - the screen based touch stuff just does not fit for my workflow at all. It would be great if it did, hear a ton of people that love it, can’t get into it. Since I’ve never gotten my hands on an Avid S1, I am not even 100% sure that the controller works through the app with any buttons that would do the same thing, so it’s possible that a Eucon controller won’t actually even fully do what I want, but that experience altogether is still miles ahead of anything else for DAW control without a mouse that I’m aware of in almost any DAW (excluding Pro Tools, since it is not composer/VST friendly in any way, despite help from DDMF tools, etc.).
I’m looking for hardware DAW controller solution in this, zero mouse, and greatly desire no touch interface if at all possible. I’m able to accomplish now an incredible amount of what I want even by mapping an NI Maschine mkII through Remote Midi … but I can see no way to load a specific VSTi without a mouse outside of Eucon control.
And I’m not asking if you’ve used apps like that in general - I’m a developer (among other things), and have driven Selenium on a headless browser and any number of other automated UI pieces. I’m asking if you or anyone else have explicitly implemented a solution that allows you to select an instrument you want on a new track. An automated solution would not work as described unless you’re going to write dozens of similar scripts, each one designed to select a specific instrument (this one opens a new instrument track that has Synthmaster2, this one opens a new instrument track that has Geist, etc.), and then need to do that for any new instrument or plugin you want to add. Even if it will actually work (and I’m asking if anyone has explicitly done that), that is actually further away from a workflow solution than what’s there at present, it seems.
I’m not knocking you or your experiences, but I’m also not being random in my question. I’m looking for a demonstrable solution that has been vetted to work, or to hear explicitly from Steinberg “no, there is no way to actually do this beyond what you’ve described.”
Key commands can be great for specific things, and potentially there’s a legitimate workaround someone has used solving this exactly problem and I’d love to hear it. Really I want Steinberg to have a solution for it, or to say they don’t have one and be direct about it. I get turned off more by the crappy silence than just admitting they don’t, which is something I honestly don’t think I’ll ever understand … how does that ever serve customers? shrug
@PuRe_AdDicT
Thanks for chiming in. Yeah, I’ve read just a little around it, and it might end up being something useful for my workflow for a lot of reasons.
But at the end of the day, if it can’t provide a verifiable path to adding a new instrument track and allowing you to select what instrument you want for the new track, I don’t think it’s the right path to pursue at the moment. I’m really looking for a solution to this one problem now, or confirmation from Steinberg that there isn’t one.
Not algorithmically.
Exactly like that.
I’m not doing this by hooking into Cubase, I’m just emulating dumb user input of mouse and keyboard.
In your case, if S1 is where you want to go, why don’t you hit them with a question over at Avid? They maintain Eucon after all, if I’m not mistaken.
Sorry for not understanding exactly the scope of your question. 
It’s possible with StreamDeck and (free) SuperMacro plugin… but you would be limited to a fixed monitor position for your channel settings window.
@ggmanestraki
Thanks man, and that’s alright, I think it’s a good conversation to have to narrow in on the specific request. I spent several weeks re-digging into DAWs and daw controllers again, and Cubase 12 came up as the only one support VST3 without generally crashing (like everything from Magix) while providing Eucon support, and ultimately I think it’s the closest experience to what I want, even if selecting the specific instrument I want for a track has to be done through the iPad that sits on top of the S1. Not ideally, but still a better composition workflow experience that doesn’t involve the mouse.
However, after learning about Remote MIDI, it gets so very close to much of the functionality that I want out of a Eucon-based controller that it would be just amazing if it can solve this, I know there are a great deal of other users that want the cleanest possible composition workflow there is, and that never involves a mouse. The growth of DAW controllers alone shows how much people greatly want that ability, where composing or mastering.
And while I do think I would still ultimately like an Avid S1, it is not possible to buy one here because of seriously crappy government customs regulations, and to do so means I would need to find another way to get it into the country. Even if possible, it’s an even larger expense. If Steinberg has a solution for this (and I’m looking into nob, plogue, or something similar that provides real mouse wheel control I can use for plugins, since AI doesn’t really work way per the devs), then instead I can grab a Qcon, X-Touch, M+ … just something that will give me motorized faders at significantly less cost than an S1 + iPad (or other tablet) and still provide a strong composition workflow. I know motorized faders sounds more like a mastering solution than a composers solution, but it’s actually an import workflow element for electronic composition, since it’s so dynamic in nature and different for every song.
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@PuRe_AdDicT
Ah yeah, that makes sense. I would run into the same thing running selenium or other graphic=based automated tools. It’s something I may end up giving more thought too, but I would greatly like to hear back from Steinberg devs about whether a solution actually does already provide this functionality or not. It would be amazing if they could even just confirm that, since it will both guide my next steps and clearly define what I would request as a feature if something doesn’t already exist.
Just seen your previous reply there, I am ordering a nOB to compliment my StreamDeck.
It removes the limitation of having to keep Channel Setting (or plug-in) window in the same position for macros to work. nOB recognises the smaller windows within Cubase. This video convinced me to give it a go. (and I have a CC121 currently)
(nOb Control + Stream Deck = 😊 - YouTube)
sorry link fixed
Yeah, that is very promising, I have to see if I can get it to Mexico.
Have a friend using a CC121 and loves it as well. I will never find one in Mexico even used, but it would be nice I think to come across one in the states while I’m there and bring it back with me. Have to keep an eye out.