Expression Maps again - Keyswitches are triggered inconsistently

Hi again. With a lot of Help from you I managed to create a XM for Sample Modeling Strings (which I’d love to share). But some wires things are going on with the keyswitches. They get untriggered when certain articulations play. Even if they are not set up as an articulation. Here in one run it plays col legno only on accented notes. In an other run it plays it on natural notes. Same with pizzicato. Same if I select a range for the articulation.
In the Player you see the Keyswitch change along.

Here is a video

I suppose sharing a file (with maybe only a bunch of notes and your expression map) would be more useful for anyone willing to help you :wink:

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Yes, it’s impossible to advise without seeing the internal workings.

One thing that would be useful is to see what expressions are shown in the Key Editor:

If you have an expression for Accents, then make sure that there isn’t a mutual exclusion between that and the col legno effect.


Tank you in advance. I created a small Dorico-Project. There is another problem, too. In the Basses I notated a Snap-Pizzicato. The same articulation plays fine in the cellos, which use the same XM (but an octave higher).

Thank you. I posted the file below

In the first picture is the col legno-problem. In the second the basses should play snap pizzicato. They do, when I select the note. But not in the pice.

With SM the bartok pizzicato is triggered when the pizzicato articulations are played at velocity of 127.

and here are the expression maps. Not yet fine tuned. And obviously with mistakes :crazy_face:

BTW no expression for accents.

Also strange: when I have a few pizzicato notes followed by staccatissimo notes (with arco) and then natural notes, the two staccatissimo notes play pizzicato as well and the natural notes play natural. Staccatissimo notes after that play staccatissimo

@Ulf might that be an problem on Kontakts site? I notice, that keyswitches, that need to be pressed during the whole passage the certain articulation is played get untriggerd, when a playing technique is notated. Even if it’s not in the expression map (in my case the accents. I only use the built in Doricos rules.
Also an keyswitche articulation gets extended, when it should be natural (arco in my case) but with an articulation notated, that isn’t triggered by a keyswitch.

Hi @Major81 , sorry but in the area ExMaps and KeySw I have no expertise.

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Thank you, ulf. Is there someone in the forum from the team I could ask? The XM and the files are in this thread.

With the next issue im almost certain that this is a bug.

I made a Playback condition (? > Bedingung), that short notes should be played like staccato notes, but a little bit softer. This ist one of the cool things with the sample modeling strings. you can custom build your own shorts from soft staccato to brutal marcato to bouncy spiccato. and it works great. Unless there is no repetition. because in this case the sounds plays long notes in the second round. as you can see in the video and the file attached, its displayed as long notes from the beginning. but played back correctly only in the first run.Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

btw shorts can be built only by manipulating cc data. No Keyswitches are involved.

I’m sure Daniel or Lillie or an experienced user will shortly see this and respond to your query about Expression Maps.

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I hope so. Unfortunately I discover strange behaviour in Dorico more often. Never upgraded right at the beginning. And with NP never had issues :confused:

I recall several scenarios where keyswitches arrived in Kontakt out of order/sync…(especially when CC Data are involved) so I’d guess the problem is Kontakt/sm rather than Dorico…

Hm. In the case of the last example it is displayed wrong in Dorico already. Not sure about the problems above

Can you upload the file directly to the forum? The onedrive link doesn’t seem to work, at least for me. Thanks!

I wanted. But the files are larger than 6 MB and the forum allows only around 4 MB

Ok, the onedrive files are accessible now, and I can be partially helpful. You mention a few issues.

  • Pizz.: If you have another active technique (eg, staccatissimo) at the same position as arco (which is set to Playback Technique Bowed), Dorico will try to select switches which match both, but it can select only 1 Base Switch at a time. In this case, Natural and Staccatissimo both appear in Base Switches, so only 1 is selected. The solution is either to use Add-on Switches for some techniques or to create Base Switches with combinations of techniques (eg, Bowed + Staccatissimo).

  • Viola & Bass: The expression maps appear ok on their own as applied to these examples. The correct Base Switches are selected. The issue is probably in the interaction with the VST/library, which I don’t use so am unable to help further. Maybe someone who uses this can take a look.
    One thing to check is that in Playback Options Overrides, “Expression map switches before notes” is set to 20 ticks. Not saying this is wrong. Just flagging it as a possible factor.

  • Repeats: This does seem inconsistent. Dorico should reselect the Base Switch at the left repeat. And there is some odd behavior if you, for example, delete the last 8th note in cello m2, or add an 8th note on the and of 4 in vl 1 m2.

  • Separate issue: In each expression map, in each of the 2 sets of switches with conditions (Natural and Non vibrato), you have both NoteLength <= Short and NoteLength >= Short. One of those should be > or <, so it behaves as expected when NoteLength == Short.

Hope this helps somewhat.

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