Expression maps - how to get started?

Dorico
1

Dear forum,

I am just getting started in Dorico and I’m looking to try out some different sound libraries, other than the default/ included ones.

For that purpose, I downloaded the orchestra tools free library.

It’s up and running in Dorico, and I can load the SINE Player, load a specific instrument and double click on the four different available playing techniques.

I set the different techniques as follows:
Violins a8 has the following: Sustains (c0), pizzicato (C#0) , spicato (D0), tremolo (D#0).

I have saved these settings in a preset in Sine player.

I went to Library/ expression maps.

Clicked on the plus icon in the bottom left (add expression map)

I named it “Test”.

In the “base and add-on switches” I clicked on the plus icon that says “add base switch”.

I searched for pizz and got pizzicato. Clicked ok.
Repeated for spiccato.

I selected the pizzicato entry and clicked on the “add key switch note action”.
Set the key switch note to C#0.

Repeated for spiccato, set the key switch note to D0.

This results in three entries, as a “natural” entry is made automatically when creating a new expression map. I didn’t put any notes in this particular entry.

Then I went to the play mode, clicked on VST instruments and added Sine player. Clicked on the strange “E” Icon which opened the Sine player and selected the preset I just made.

Then I went to the track inspector, selected the track “violin”, routed it to Sine player (port 1, ch 1) and once again clicked on the strange “E” icon which opened the Sine player and I confirmed that the preset I just made still was selected.

In the “Ex map” I selected the newly created expression map.

When I know select a note on the violin part, click on the playing techniques panel on the right and select “pizz.” or “spicc.”, nothing happens other than a violin playing just as normal as it has always done.

I hope somebody can point me in the right direction with this.

By the way, when I open the expression map, select e.g. pizzicato and press the audition button, it doesn’t play pizzicato but just stays in “sustain mode”.

Thanks

2

I have made a basic template for the OT Free Orchestra, here:

There are several videos about the whole process of creating maps, endpoints and templates on YouTube.

3

Thanks so much benwiggy, I will open your template right away :slight_smile:

What’s the difference between playback template and expression maps?
And “endpoints”, I just don’t know what it is yet.

I searched on YouTube, but I couldn’t find anything relevant :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth:

4

I compose using my ears. In order to compose, I therefore need the instruments to sound as natural and realistic as possible. I compose using very few instruments, so since i need the sounds to inspire me and sound realistic makes finding the right instruments even more demanding.

When i use Dorico, i would love if i could just have set all the instruments which i prefer - perhaps using sound sets from different companies - and when using common playing techniques the application will take care of making the playback reflect this without me having to sit and work for hours adjusting or manually changing the midi channel or other disturbing technical things ruining my work flow. And I’d also like if it was possible that the score reflects what I hear, if some day real musicians will play it :slight_smile:

5

Ok, I’ll check

What is a playback template? | Dorico Playback Templates
and
What is an expression map and why do you need one? | Dorico Playback Templates

6

I suggest watching this YouTube playlist, which will tell you everything you need to know.

7

Thanks, benwiggy :slight_smile:

I can see - and from my experience so far - that it’ll take weeks before I can just start composing.

The note from Dorico is routed to this, then this, then this and then this. Save this routing here, here, here, here and here. And if something is not working, do… ask friendly forum members that are so kind to taking the time to try to help with you getting to know what they themselves spent hours and hours on learning.

8

It might be simplest if you just start with the default sounds provided with Dorico, which work out of the box. Many users also like working with NotePerformer, which also “just works” as soon as you install it and select the playback template it comes with.

But yes, if you’re new to Dorico and want to build your own template for libraries that don’t already have one, I suspect it may take you a while.

9

What have you been using before Dorico?

Learning any sophisticated tool is going to take time, particularly if you want to customize it.

10

I’ve been using DAWs like Logic and Ableton. Tons of synths and samplers. Hardware sequencers. Playing “real” instruments.

So working with notation and notational software is new to me.

I’m really picky with sounds, and can work on a single sound on e.g. a synth for days.

I have always been wanting to compose classical music as well, but I haven’t got the training from composing classes at a conservatory etc.

This means - combined with my pickyness - that the instruments have to sound really good and natural in order to inspire me. I’m not able to imagine how the music I compose sounds just from the notes I put on paper (or Dorico e.g.) alone. I have to hear it, as close as it will actually sound when played by real musicians as possible.

I’m not into big symphonies and all. I’m more into a limited set of instruments in a more “chamber-like” setting.

What I would like is:
(Very) good (“natural”) sounding
Violin, Viola, Cello
Glockenspiel
Piano
Woodblock and other kinds of unpitched percussion.
Timpani
Celesta
That:
Responds (well) to written notation in Dorico including dynamics, sustains, pizzicato, spicato and tremolo.

But you are definitely right, learning any sophisticated tool is always going to take time.

It’s just that I think I expected to put in a lot of time and effort in learning how to work with notation and composing, and not a lot of time on how to make the instruments sound good and respond to dynamics and basic playing techniques. And after that Long and winding road with hopefully good sounds - start composing, which was what I was after in the first place.

11

Do you not find the piano and percussion that comes with Dorico to be ‘natural’?

And what about the Iconica strings?

You can’t use Logic’s samples (easily) with Dorico – but I’d argue that they are mostly very old and not that great.

12

I really wanna thank you for the tip with noteperformer :folded_hands:

This tip and learning a little bit about how noteperformer works from a tip about bowed playback from wing (in another thread) has led me to actually start composing something :slight_smile:

Which libraries are you using?

13

hi ben I have to try the built-in piano and percussion and iconica strings out some more, but right now I’m just really happy just sticking with noteperformer - which reacts to playing techniques and dynamics right out of the box with very few tweaks (applying bowed playing technique).

Perhaps later, I’ll look into using a week or two understanding how expression maps and all the other things that have to be set exactly the right way work.

Which libraries are you using?

14

@benwiggy have you made the percussion maps? If not, I have them. Maybe you can mix my data with yours.

Paolo

15

No, I haven’t made any, so yes please!

17

Musescore does this no problem. I’m trying to switch to Dorico and it is a nightmare. Why is this so *** complicated!?!?

18

The two approaches aren’t directly comparable. MuseScore reimplements the libraries in a different sampler, while Dorico drives the original libraries directly. My understanding is that MuseScore is also getting the ability to drive the original libraries directly, but it will surely face the same types of complications as setting up the Dorico playback.

Once someone has made good playback templates for a given library in Dorico, they are reasonably easy to use and set themselves up. Then the only problem you end up dealing with are potential inconsistencies in the original library that you would have to deal with in a DAW. If the library is programmed consistently enough that this doesn’t matter then you can bascically write and deal with it, but unfortunately most library vendors don’t care about consistency because people buy their libraries no matter how bad of a job they do on that.

19

thank you for your answer. I downloaded the Berlin Free Orchestra. I set it up to play with the instruments I’d imported from Musescore via musicxml. They sounded fine but didn’t respond to dynamics in the score. After some digging, I now understand that’s because I need an expression map for each instrument. I’m learning how to create an expression map, but they must already exist somewhere, right? Why aren’t the expression maps downloaded and installed automatically? This seems so clunky and clumsy. I’m sure a couple of years’ experience and it will be smooth as silk. But for a beginner, it’s maddening.

20

They might. But Steinberg doesn’t make a lot of maps or playback templates on their own. Most of the maps are made by end-users and are of varying quality and standards because they are done by different people. There is currently no central repository for Dorico to find playback templates or maps online via some kind of service, instead it is up to the user to check a few different sources.

One such source is the Playback Template page on the Dorico Blog: Playback Template – Dorico

That has links to download playback templates made officially by Steinberg and also some end-users.

That page is not complete though. There are also numerous maps available in this thread, some of which are on the Playback Template page and some of which are not:

And @benwiggy posted a template for Berlin Free Orchestra in this thread, which apparently was forgotten to link to in the master Expression Maps thread:

Although the template in that first post excludes the unpitched percussion maps, in the last post a user created percussion maps and uploaded them in a separate zip file.

21

MuseScore does what no problem? Customization of sounds per instrument, which is what @steinfeld describes?

Not in my experience, it doesn’t. VST support in MuseScore is extremely basic; channel assignment is automatic (making the efficient organization of samples extremely difficult), each instrument is absurdly assigned its own VST (with no easy way to change this), mapping articulations to specific samples is not doable (there are no plans to start supporting this until version 5 of the application), etc. In MuseScore, your best option for now is simply to stick with Muse Sounds for the most comprehensive support of notation playback; unless your needs are pretty basic, and unless you want to grab the source code and try programming MuseScore yourself, don’t even try to use your own VST multis.

Currently, there is no music composition software that supports custom VST set-ups well. In a world where sounds libraries are produced for use with DAWs instead of notation software, Dorico has made the best effort at shoe-horning sample set playback into traditional notation, but like every other notation application, it is a complex and idiosyncratic system that is easily broken at any of several possible points of failure spread throughout the application (as @steinfeld suggests), and that still doesn’t work well (if at all) for some of the most basic notation. (e.g., try playing a simple trombone slide using a sample library that isn’t supported by Dorico out of the box.) Sometimes, just upgrading Dorico to a new minor version is enough to break playback; this has happened to me multiple times, including with the latest release.