Feature for ranking, commenting, sorting and filtering lanes

EDIT:

Hi everyone

I’m editing my original post after giving it some more thought and narrowing in on the core functionality of my feature request. I’ll leave the original post below for those interested.

The feature would allow DAW users to rank, comment, sort, and filter lanes while recording, using one or more hotkeys—or MIDI commands—assigned to give the latest take a 1–5 star rating, or simply a thumbs up/down.

An addition to this would be comments on the events themselves. In my original post, I imagined this being done by an AI voice assistant, allowing the user to speak directly to the DAW so that it automatically types a comment onto the event. Both the ranking and the comment would appear as an overlay on top of the waveform, MIDI data, or other event data, making it directly visible in the project window.

Without the AI voice assistant, the commenting feature could still work via manual user input. While this might not be very practical during recording—and doing it afterward may somewhat defeat the purpose—it could still have its uses.

The next level of the feature would be a sorting and filtering function. Similar to a table in Excel, the lanes could be sorted and filtered by ranking or other criteria—for example, reverting to a chronological order of the recordings. This could create a clear overview before listening back for editing.

If AI implementation were included, another useful sub-feature could be automatic similarity detection across takes. Takes could then be sorted and filtered based on their similarities, making it quicker to identify the best candidates for overdubs.

I still believe the feature would benefit greatly from having an AI voice assistant for comment input. However, I realize that the AI aspect of my original post did put off some initial responders—and understandably so. In a very short time, AI has revealed its darker side to many people who create out of passion, and letting it in can certainly give off Trojan horse vibes. I can also imagine that implementing AI would be an entirely different level of complexity. So perhaps a simple feature for ranking, commenting, sorting and filtering lanes in Cubase would be a solid first step.

Cheers - Anders

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ORIGINAL POST:

Hello Cubase developers

I can only imagine that Cubase is on the verge of breaking through to the AI realm, and I’m thinking of a use for AI as help for solo artist like myself not having the luxury of an engineer or a producer to keep an overview while trying to stay in the zone for the sake of a performance.

Personally I can easily do hundreds of takes, while shaping and trying to refine the vibe of my song, and sifting through all those takes to finding the takes I like afterwards is daunting to say the the least. Not to mention comping becomes quite an overwhelming puzzle.

Now imagine an AI listening in on all the takes considering basic musical aspects like pitch, timing and amplitude (maybe it could be a setting what the AI should pay more attention to). Depending on the quality perceived by the AI, the lanes would get ranked/sortet automatically.

Furthermore if the AI could be set to listen in on my own comments after a take, it could use what I actually have to say about the performance myself on top of simply ranking the musical aspects. This would create an even better overview of the best takes even if they may have been “happy accidents”.

Ex. 1: I nail a take both pitch- and timing-wise but I mispronounce a word and I might say something like: “Damn, great pitch but I messed up “artificial””. The AI would pick up on my comment recognizing that the take - in my opinion - had some good and some bad and add that to the ranking and even add a note to the take saying: “Great pitch but the word “artificial” was mispronounced”.

Ex. 2: I nail another performance, but I find it’s too clean and polished for the style I’m going for. The AI will of course recognize that musically the take should be ranked high but as the it hears me saying eg.: “Erh… this was too boring. It needs more grit.” it will move the take a few places down and add a note saying: “Too boring. Needs grit”.

Ex. 3: Maybe I do a take that is not the prettiest of performances, but I really like some of its imperfections and say: “Oh yeah. Landing slightly flat on that high C is just what I going for”. Again the AI would pick up on my comment, rank it higher, than it would based sole on pitch and timing and add a note of my comment to the take.

This type of AI assistant could be used for all types of instrument, as long as a mic is connected to pick up the comments. The function would of course require a note attribute to be added to all types of events. This could be accessed from the info bar, the event editor and the inpector. But to truly offer the overview that this requested function could create, the notes created by the AI or as old fashioned user input should be visible, and even searchable, on the events themselves in the project window. I suggest a Toggle-able overlay on events to keep a cleaner look for users not utilizing this function. This overlay could hold other information as well.

I’d imagine that this function would be as useful even if people are collaborating two or more people and not only for solo artists depending entirely on themselves in a recording situation.

Feel free to comment. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. And also, if someone can share ideas for workflows when working with large stacks og lanes to help me out while hopefully waiting for this feature I’d be grateful.

Cheers - Anders

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It sounds like maybe you should work on dialing in the performance a bit more before you start recording.

The thought of this even being a remote possibility makes me want to vomit.

It’s a hard “no” for me. Nasty, disgusting thoughts. Creepy stuff, man! :face_vomiting:

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100%. If any of these features were implemented in any way that even slightly got in the way of my production workflow, it would be bad. I’m thinking “catastrophic,” but that may be a bit too harsh. I don’t want AI anywhere near my creative process or even my production processes - like, in the least.

I think the existing “Give me a bee-bop country/death metal hybrid song about my chainsaw cheating on me” services already do everything people willing to play in that market need. Trying to create some “hybrid” integration that lets people think “I’m using a real DAW to have AI write music for me, so I’m a producer now” would drive me away quickly.

Now, if SB wants to write some “AI toy” to serve that market which is completely different and named/marketed separately, whatever. But keep it as far away from Cubendo as possible. AI for generating multi-language captions in Nuendo? Sure, why not. But ANY integration with any service using generative AI or for any sort of content modeling, processing, or even concatenative would probably lose my business just out of principle.

I couldn’t agree with you more, sir.

EDIT: I realize I brought more than the OP suggested, but holy cow…

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Honestly, this gives me the creeps, too.

But: AI will infiltrate a lot of if not all aspects of music production and it is already happening. It poses a massive thread to human culture as we know it but I will not go down this road in this post.

When it comes to Cubendo:
Will AI tools ever reach a sophisticated degree of assessment which comes close to the human perception of what we (there is no such thing as intersubjectivity) would deem as art? I doubt it.

I think Cubendo will remain a DAW for artists - and as artists we need proper and highly specialized tools. Although I am convinced that AI features will become a part of Cubendo at some level - it will surely never dominate our DAW like it is foreseeable in other products.

Maybe @Anders_Klem 's vision of future AI features will become a reality. However: It will never substitute the need for a true performance that makes us feel something in the first place. AI can surely imitate or categorize feelings up to a certain level, yes, sure. But the extra mile - most of the times we don’t even know what exactly that is until we hear it. When it comes to comping, same thing. AI will have a hard time to pick the right take for the exact same reasons.

But as they say, each to their own. It’s not for me, that’s for sure.

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I’m beginning to feel sorry for @Anders_Klem . We all seem to be against AI.


The OP mentions things that concern correcting those small imperfections (pitch, timing) with which every live performance is riddled. And yet it is those very same imperfections that can make a performance into a great performance.
Not to mention things like “feel”, for example, when a (good) drummer hits the snare a little before or after the beat, or when a singer hits that “blue note” that’s halfway between two semitones. All wiped out by AI.
Quantise is bad enough, let alone AI.
Luddites unite!!

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That’s very kind of you to say, @Googly_Smythe .
It’s nothing against the OP or his personal vision of AI and how it could be implemented to help him out. We all have different background stories and I guess we just feel differently about it. And, of course, AI and how copyrights are dealt with.

BTW: My deleted post above wasn’t a rant - it was a PM about panning which I accidently posted here. Sorry for those who read it and thought - what on earth has this to do with AI?

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That was me!

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I don’t share any of the resentments against AI brought forward in this topic in regards to the requested feature.
In fact, it seems to me the feature request might not have been read thoroughly and been misunderstood.

I don’t see anything wrong with having an artificial assistant to take notes.

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I think AI is going to be more useful in a different way – mundane software tasks. For example, once you open a program, you talk into a mic to set up projects in a DAW or notation software. After the program is open, you say “Chamber ensemble templet; arm track five for record” or (In notation) “add violin, delete cello pickup” etc. But I can’t see AI for artistic uses. I enjoy the composition process, Ive done it since i was 7 years old, it’s one of the things I studied in grad school, it’s what I do for a living – it’s the one time I feel relaxed and energized. Can AI do better? I don’t care if it can or can’t; I like the composition process and i wont ever use AI for that. Think about some analogies: AI has been able to beat chess grand masters since the 90s, but we still have grand masters; robots can beat humans in sprints but we still have the Olympics with humans; a simple laptop can do math faster than the greatest mathematicians, but humans still do math.

So I’ll never use AI for music or poems or lyrics. I won’t even consider it. But it would be nice for the basic tasks a program does – it can greatly reduce keyboard or mouse clicks, and reduce the possibility of repetitive stress disorders.

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Hi there, Greg from Club Cubase has already stated many times that AI will not be implemented.

In all honesty, the stuff you mentioned is just production and a good ear; you don’t need AI to get to the conclusions and workflow level you need to get to.

Anyway, my two cents.

A bold statement from Greg. Did he maybe specifically refer to the artistic process?
Just keep in mind that stem separation is also AI based. So anybody using that is already using AI.
And Nuendo has an AI feature with dialog transcription.

But the OP never mentioned AI for artistic creation in their request. Only for analysis and tagging. Passive AI if you will.

Yes, he was referring to AI for artistic purposes, and indeed, he mentioned that AI is already used for some functions related to production. But not for artistic output, should have clarified.

Please quote.
Ranking takes by criteria set up by the user is not an artistic feature. It is busy work.

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There is place to utilise AI in Cubase for sure in terms of the software helping workflow and helpful tools but it may get to the place that the human using it is surplus to requirements.

In terms of AI judging your takes - I’m not sure if a computer can make those choices and in the end the choices that the human makes to leave in the song - as imperfect as they are - are what makes the character of the work in the end

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No AI for artistic purposes, please. Just utility things like stem separation (which is already handled by SpectraLayers and others). I know “utility AI” is a slippery slope with gray lines, but if Steinberg implements artistically-oriented AI features, the end of the world is upon us, we might as well all give up, and go hide in a bunker.

More AI equals lower IQ. Use your own brain, folks, especially for creative choices.

Someone else is making those tools anyway, so good luck everyone, and see you on the other side of the apocalypse.

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Hi All

Thank you for your feedback. I’ll just reply to a few comments :slight_smile:

Don’t be sorry—it’s a debate, and everyone’s entitled to their opinion. Though it seems like I downright offended some with my horrendous proposal. That wasn’t my intention, and for the record: use of the requested feature in question should, of course, be an active choice made by the user within their own DAW setup. I can totally appreciate that every performance circling an external data center for processing—potentially getting scraped for data to be sold off to Suno and the likes—wouldn’t sit well with most. Fair enough. When it comes to music-generating AIs like Suno, I’m definitely not a fan either.

Where I stand in regards to AI is that I don’t want it to replace anything artistic. I don’t see the point of art if it isn’t a vessel conveying a piece of the artists spirit. I don’t use AI for anything creative (melodies, progressions, lyrics, rhythm, etc.). In most cases, I steer clear of pitch correction, quantizing, and AI-based plug-ins too. When doing 200+ takes I do it as a trial-and-error method to shape the performance. I realize this might come across as slightly unorthodox to someone who has spent a lifetime evolving their musical skills to play with feel at will. I’m more of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none type of creative, but to my core I strive for the human element (genre-dependent, of course) in my work. I put in a lot of grind to get where I want while avoiding the temptation of letting the simulation take control and pour in whatever secret sauce it deems necessary in order to standardize me as an artist.

That said, I don’t believe AI is going away either (and I don’t believe it’s all bad). Trying to find ways to use it without compromising or replacing creativity does occupy quite a few of my brainwaves. One area—in terms of music production—would simply be housekeeping and organizing within my projects, as they become quite messy at times. Preventing that would help me stay focused, since tidying up a project is a creativity killer for me. Go on and quote Einstein if you must. :grinning_face:

I’m definitely not talking about having AI correct or create anything. I’m on the exact same page as you. Other than adding notes (as in written ones, not musical notes) and providing a better overview by sorting my many takes when working with lanes, I wouldn’t want AI to do anything. Just something that would spare me the interruption of having to step out of the zone, stop the recording loop, and write on a post-it, e.g. “take 78 had a really nice vibrato.”

Sure, I could. I guess my process is just different. Writing, producing, performing, mixing ect. is all happening all in one big pot for me. So the “dialing in” is very much happening with the record button ON. I don’t write each individual part, practice to perfection, and then record everything as I thought it out. I keep pilling on stuff, taking some out, re-introducing something and obviously there’s doubt along the way. More than often, I’ll find myself returning to the original “nerve” of a performance from a very early stage of trying out different performances. But I don’t know before having tried a bunch of different things. And maybe having everything recorded is a bit of crutch, but it also allows me to gather opinions from others. I guess we all have different workflows.

I couldn’t agree more. This is exactly why I would want such a tool. The backbone of the feature would be the artist’s ability to communicate seamlessly with the DAW by speaking out comments, which the AI could then use when ranking the take and adding written tags, comments, or notes to the event itself. The level of musical perfection or precision perceived by the AI could be secondary—and of course a user setting. The goal is to rank and comment on takes in the moment (@uarte: to help me remember which performances felt particularly good and thereby aid my later creative choices). Communicating with an AI could simply be the method.

I - like @Johnny_Moneto points out - also get the sense that my point with the feature request wasn’t clear enough, but I hope I have specified a bit. I also apologies if I’m sounding slightly defensive in my reply. I just don’t want any of of you to have the wrong impression of me as a fellow creative. My request is not to have something being creative for me (or any of you) but to rid me for repetitive tasks and leave more time and energy for creativity. After all, we’re here on a DAW-forum and not a tape machine-forum.

Cheers, everyone. Thanks for the input - Anders

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Have a :beer_mug: on me.

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So a voice assistant - after a vocal take ‘cubase mark that one in red’ or Cubase ‘new note: best take so far.

that kind of thing? Kinda what I do with singers on a day to day basis :grinning_face:

Could be useful indeed, including the option : “This take sucks - Please delete”.

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Sure… something like that indeed :slight_smile: I never thought to colorize takes as a way to rank them. Should be fairly easy to set up a macro and a hot key to use when listening back. Thanks, mart.

BTW: is there a way to add comments to an event other than changing it’s name which unfortunately affects all event on the track and all takes in the lanes.