I’m THIS close to making good audio demos from my Dorico scores. But one thing would make it really work - some kind of mixer automation of the simplest kind.
How difficult would it be to have Dorico’s mixer respond to a simple volume message?
Very often I know that the dynamic I’ve entered for live players is correct for live performance - but the sample I’m using for playback needs a nudge up (or down) for just one spot (like a solo).
Yes, I’ve put in a louder dynamic, hidden it, then entered the lower dynamic and then suppressed its playback. But as that previous sentence shows that’s a very kludgey way of making such an adjustment. And using velocity to make the adjustment is also cumbersome as the velocity adjustment in the lower panel doesn’t do anything in Write mode, so I’m forced to go into Play mode and adjust velocities in the graphic view of the lower panel.
I was able to make these kind of adjustments in Sibelius with hidden volume messages.
Please tell me I’m missing something that’s already there for implanting mixer position adjustments or MIDI volume or expression messages. If not, could this be part of an upcoming update?
Adjusting velocity in write mode works for me just fine. Once you figure out why it doesn’t work for you, you can do all kinds of nudging in the key editor.
Make sure you aren’t looking at the histogram because you can’t edit velocities in that view.
@michaelstarobin is asking about automation, which is the ability to input an automatic change in the mixer channel at a certain point in the score. Say, at the beginning of bar 12, move the slider from -10db to -8db.
I’m pretty sure there is no feature that allows for this, currently.
Similar, but not the same. Doing so in both the key editor and the mixer would be additive. The key editor could also affect timbre depending on the instrument/library. (While I’d argue that would be a good thing, we don’t know what @michaelstarobin ultimate goals are, or what VSTs he’s using.)
For most VIs, you can use CC7 and CC11 for volume automation without affecting velocity/dynamic layer. Ofc, depends on what you’re using, but those are the usual controllers for master volume and expression respectively. Some libs (like NotePerformer iirc) use CC11 for dynamics, but CC7 works.
(Edit to say that fader and plugin automation within the Dorico mixer would be AWESOME if ever implemented)
(2nd Edit to say that CC7 does not seem to work for volume adjustment in NP)
So I’m using NotePerformer4 which seems to be the issue. It does not seem to respond to CC7 at all. CC11 works, but it also changes the timbre of the sample which in this case I am NOT looking for. I’m looking to tweak my mix a bit, not increase the forcefulness of the playing (which an increase in dynamics would do.)
(As a side question, can anyone tell me if NotePerformer 5 responds to CC7?)
So instead I experimented with an EastWest set of Tubular Bells I’ve added to my setup and tried some automation in the Key Editor.
The bells I’m using do respond to CC7 and CC11.
But a ramped CC7 change from 0 to 127 only brings it from silence up to the level of the previously applied dynamic. So that would seem to mean that Dorico is by default setting all CC7 levels to 127 when nothing has been manually entered. (So now I have to go back to the top of my chart and enter CC7 levels of 100 so I have some head room. That would solve the problem for non-NotePerformer sounds.)
Expression levels entered in the Key Editor seem to only go as high as the dynamic that is marked. They can’t exceed that level. If I mark the passage mp and then add a ramp from 0 to 127 for CC11, I only reach the level that was playing before I added any CC11. Changing the dynamic to ff now has more effect than the use of CC11 but with the corresponding switch to a harder sample which I was not looking for on a simple mixing nudge.
None of this shows up in the mixer of course. What does the number in the mixer actually represent? It certainly works for an overall level setting on the track(staff) but it seems to be unconnected to controller values of any kind.
Why am I looking for a simple thing like a volume nudge for playback? I find that Dorico is only a few steps away from being a new kind of software - a notation DAW which for certain kinds of music is an invaluable tool. I orchestrated demos in Logic in the past and always had to deal with the next step of putting them into score for performance. And I’ve also done the opposite when I had to send out my Finale or Sibelius score to be demoed by someone else for a film director to judge. This program could make all of that a one step process - it’s so close.
I’m amazed at the ease of exporting my audio tracks from Dorico for stems to go into ProTools for a music editor to have on hand at a live recording. But I’d like to get those tracks just right since often the percussion and keyboard (and even harp) are coming from me instead of being recorded live. Regular DAWs fall down on the voicings of woodwind and brass sections - it’s takes too much time to properly divide the voices up into MIDI tracks - I can do it so much more quickly in notation with copy, paste and exploding tools.
That’s strange. Dorico normally by default sets all CC7 levels to 100 when nothing has been manually entered. So I always leverage this fact for headroom, so that I can go up to 127 if something needs a boost. I don’t know how you got 127 as I didn’t know it was possible to change this, and I haven’t heard anything about the default changing.
You can of course do this. It is a different result since it will affect timbre and not just amplitude. A word of caution - if you have these dynamics linked to other staves, I believe they will all get the same automation if done this way. That might be good or bad depending on the situation.
… if your volume controller in the expression map uses that particular CC, yes. Your warning about linked dynamics is spot on. I tend to not fiddle with dynamics, rather draw or through play(ing|back) techniques affecting vibrato and dynamic layers.
You are probably correct - I didn’t hear much difference in that particular sound between 100 and 127 - might be my old ears. Doesn’t help that the faders in the mixer never change unless you touch them.
Make sure you have the MIDI faders enabled in the Dorico mixer (so you see them too and not just the audio faders). For me those all show 100. I’m not sure if this is conclusive but it is something to check anyway.
Make sure you have the MIDI faders enabled in the Dorico mixer (so you see them too and not just the audio faders). For me those all show 100. I’m not sure if this is conclusive but it is something to check anyway.
So when I click on “MIDI” faders I see just the faders. When I clicks on “Instrument Faders” I see the same faders plus sends and EQ options. When I click both MIDI and Instrument I see only one set of faders. Are there two sets of faders here or one? What is the difference between Instrument faders and MIDI faders (since neither seems to respond to MIDI)? From what I can tell, they are BOTH the same set of audio faders only.
The MIDI faders are controlling CC7 theoretically, at least the default starting CC7 for the track (any CC7 automation will override that and it will no longer reflect what is actually happening). The instrument faders are audio faders that control audio level for the audio coming back from the virtual instrument.
Remember that Dorico is one part of a suite of audio applications from Steinberg. This is all achievable in Cubase … and Cubase will load and save a Dorico project.
I understand that it’s another expense to purchase Cubase but it has a “cut down” of Dorico now built in so they are built to work together and Cubase has all the automation and mixing features you need.
When I am creating tracks that need a score I have them both open at the same time.
