Fingering UI would work well for figured bass?

I’m watching ‘Discover Dorico’ for this month, have gotten to the fingerings portion, and I can definitely see this sort of input method for figured bass. Of course, figured bass will be no-less-complicated than chord symbols.

Figured bass differs from fingering in that a harmony belongs to a bass note rather than a fingering number belonging to individual noteheads, but yes, I daresay that when the figured bass feature eventually comes to Dorico, it will follow a similar popover-based pattern for its input method.

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I helped a friend render an Alessandro Scarlatti oratorio into Finale a few years ago. From everything I’ve heard and read, I will be hoping for figured bass as a Xmas present…in at least 2018. My instinct tells me 2019 will see this in the program.

What I will probably do is, on my own, move over (or re-enter from scratch) the music and wait for figured bass to come 'round, at which point I will get that project done.

I’m sure you know this already but I just thought to mention that figured bass can go anywhere in a measure, not just at the position of a bass note. That’s one of the things that makes it difficult in the existing notation programs. In Finale I used to enter them as lyrics but that meant that there had to be a note or a [hidden] rest to which to attach the lyric. Later I entered them as chord symbols but that meant that I had to create my own set of special chord symbols by defining each and every possible figured bass number combination. Even then, it’s still difficult to enter a chord symbol at a point where the program doesn’t think there’s a beat. I’m really curious how Dorico is going to deal with all this but, judging from how other things are being implemented, I’m confident that it’ll be well thought-out.

Since lyrics currently anchor to beats (measure position or whatever Dorico’s equivalent of MIDI Time Code is) rather than syllables, I think the basic engine is there on which to build figured bass in the future.

MuseScore has an easy efficient bc notation, Ctr + 1 (or other note duration keys) move it forward or Space for next note.
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/figured-bass
I find it quit shocking that Daniel says “when figured base notation EVENTUALLY comes to Dorico”, should have been top priority! Now you cannot make a proper baroque score. I am not going to buy Dorico until figured bass is included.

You shouldn’t read too much into my use of the word “eventually” – I only mean “in the future” rather than what you appear to be inferring, which is “we consider figured bass the lowest priority thing on our wish list and you may not live to see the day it arrives”…

good to hear:-)

srh, out of interest, if you prepare an edition f.e. for Bärenreiter publishing house, would they accept it from a quite new software like Dorico? Or will they rather use their own? Does a publishing house work with the music.xml file variants? In that case it would be crucial, wether figured bass information gets exported at all…
I ask, because I came across a new Bach edition of them (I think it was the b-minor mass) and the typesetting (of the parts at least) wasn’t good (in my opinion).

At some point in the 1990s, I think, the New Bach Edition started typesetting the scores and parts digitally (in Finale perhaps?). The results are very good, to be sure, but to my eye it is a step down from the earlier engraved editions. The New Bach Edition scores from the 1960s are among the most beautifully-engraved scores in the world, in my opinion.

You can see a particularly beautiful example here:
http://imslp.eu/files/imglnks/euimg/d/d6/IMSLP468976-PMLP6314-bachNBAII,6weihnachts-oratoriumBWV248I.jauchzet,frohlocket,auf,preisetdietage.pdf

And an example of the newer engraving:
https://www.baerenreiter.com/resource/public/products/BA11820/infoitems/nb/lrg_01.jpg

JulianBennettHolmes, yes I also like the Bärenreiter typesetting. This is, why I was amazed to see really carelessly made parts of a new edition…
I have two criticism though. Bärenreiter has the image of being a good source for historically informed players of baroque and classical repertoire. A lot of their earlier editions of J.S. Bach f.e. brandenburg concertos from the 1950s are heavily edited (arranged) though.
And one special thing bothers me too: they set up this standard instrumentation for the bass lines “Violoncello, Fagotto, Cembalo, Organ” that led a lot performers to the false conclusion, that this was probably a historically correct setup:


I can’t speak to the editing of the Brandenburg Concertos, but you’re right about the continuo instrumentation in the Christmas Oratorio, and it seems that the publisher later caught the error — the staff labels haven’t been changed, but the title page that lists the instrumentation at the beginning of each movement has been updated in the more recent printings. Instead of listing “Violoncello, Fagotto, Continuo, Organo,” it now simply says “Continuo, Organo.”

This is a list of the original parts.

Bärenreiter uses Finale, I made my edition for them in MuseScore and and exported as pdf.
I think when Dorico is grown up they might use it.

thank you srh,
if I have a look at the manuscript score, things look different:

„Violoncelli, Bassoni e Cont[inuo]“

This means we still also have other parts, at least this is how it should be. www.bachdigital.de and look for the parts. The organ part should be the part that is transposed one tone down and is always (?) figured (beziffert)

srh, yes I had a look there. One set of parts claims „bassono“ but as we can see in the score it labels the part for the bassoon players
I think we have a similar case in the St. Johns passion (where - in one of the autograph scores - we find „bassoni“ right at the beginning):

I mention this, as the way and constellation musicians use the Bärenreiter editions this very case leads to conclusions to only use one instrument by part…
Also if Bach uses french nomenclature for his instrument, why does Bärenreiter use the (older) Italian names?
D-B Mus. ms. Bach P 28.jpg

It is indeed a very interesting topic! We will very soon see a new book (thesis in Utrecht 11-12-2017) about this kind of subjects by Rens Bijma…
https://www.uu.nl/en/events/phd-thesis-defence-rens-bijma-on-johann-sebastian-bach-and-his-musicians-in-leipzig

Thank you srh for the link, very much looking forward to get hold of a copy :slight_smile:

And I look forward to have figured bass in Dorico:-)