Folder Tracks in MixConsole

I use a lot of Folder tracks in the Project window, to organize and control clutter. Usually I have top-level Folders for Rhythm, Vox, Guitars, Keys, and so on, with subfolders, as needed, for example, Vox/Backing Vox.

I’d like to use these organizing principles in MixConsole, too, such that I can easily “fold”, say, Backing Vox or even all Vox tracks up, to reduce the number of channels MixConsole is showing. Seems to me a natural behavior for “Sync MixConsole and Project” doesn’t it?

I can sort of do a workaround for this by selecting channels and Hiding them, but that’s not as good, for all the same reasons as for Project: by rolling them up under their parent Folder, the folder is the placeholder; they don’t just disappear. And showing them is as simple as clicking on the Folder.

Previously, I’ve also suggested that Folders optionally act as VCA or Group tracks, and that would really make sense here: collapsing a Folder in MixConsole would roll up all that Folder’s children, leaving the Folder track in MixConsole - and that Folder has a fader, etc. on it to control its children.

Use the visibility tab on the left, there you can hide/show all tracks in a folder.

That’s useful, but it’s not really what I’m suggesting. I’d like to see MixConsole roll up folder tracks similar to the track list in Project: the folder is a higher-level proxy for the child folders it contains: it shows events,; it enables/disables record, monitoring, locking, etc. Very handy, and I use it all the time for different purposes.

Rolling up the folder would still leave a placeholder in MixConsole, rather than just hiding the children. The last paragraph was important, too: I sometimes use Folder tracks to group together drums, guitars or background vocals. It would be really nice to have the option to use Folder tracks like Group tracks, e.g., with Fader, Inserts, Sends, etc. Maybe that’s a new GroupFolder track?

IMHO, MixConsole’s strength and weakness both is that it models a conventional hardware mixer / control surface, and there’s room for innovation to improve upon that. For example, a previous feature suggestion I made is a track type that can contain multiple media types and switch between them, e.g., a MIDI track that gets rendered to audio, or a mono DI guitar track that gets reamped to stereo. Now you have to keep these original tracks of the performance squirreled away somewhere, in case you need it later. But I think Cubase is very close to having all the machinery implemented for this via the track versions feature. Extend that to have a processing / rendering step in between versions and the flexibility for versions to be different media types and you’re pretty much there.

since folders only help organicing tracks and do not do anything with the audio they have no task in the mixer

hey steffen - the first half of your sentence speaks to my point: folders help organize tracks in Project view; they would be similarly powerful to help organize tracks in MixConsole, too.

I completely understand Project and MixConsole came to have different organizations: MixConsole is patterened after physical hardware mixers/consoles/desks. and that was great, to a point - that point being when Project evolved beyond a simple list of tracks. In other words, MixConsole’s mixer metaphor made the most sense when Project evolved (out of necessity!) beyond a tape deck metaphor.

bottom line: for many reasons having to do with good UI design, MixConsole should (optionally) offer the same organizing structures as Project. that includes folders, as well as track list splits. right now, MixConsole provides different organizing structures, zones and visibility, even though it is organizing the very same tracks as in Project. that puts additional cognitive load on the user, as now they have to juggle two different “maps” of their track-space.

people that dont organize their tracks by folder may like the current approach, but those of us that make heavy use of folders to organize projects will know exactly what i’m talking about, IMHO, and benefit greatly from the unified track-space.

+1

You have seen the Configuration feature, both in the MixConsole and the Project Window?

they would be similarly powerful to help organize tracks in MixConsole

this would break workflow concepts of the mixer
the mixer contains only channels with a use regarding to signal processing or control

all other track types have absolutly nothing to do with the mixer and are not shown
you can sync already the mixer view with the project view

Steffen: maybe it’s not for you then.

ok I try it again
you can already define how to view folders and their content in the left area
where you can select what is shown in the mixer view

so there is no need to integrate something with folders inside the mixer
at the moment every channel has real use related to audio and control

and btw
there are 4 mixers available, each can view a different set of channels

+1.

You’re basically describing Track Stacks in Logic Pro. It’s a great feature. Cubase has fallen behind in this area.

ok I watched a video about Track stacks…

we already have groups and folders and VCA’s and I still think there is no real need for folders in the mixer
but I would suggest VCA or group spill like on some live sound consoles
that would do the same with already available channels

and if that gets mirrored with multiple mixer windows it will speed up workflow

I think people who have not used Logic, are not grasping this important point. It’s a great feature and it would be nice if it could be added to Cubase.

I don’t want that

And that’s perfectly fine! Even in Cubase now, you don’t have to use VCA tracks or Folder tracks, Group track, or whatever. For those of us that make heavy use of Folder tracks, the suggestion here is to (optionally) carry over that organizing principle to MixConsole. YMMV. Don’t feel compelled to use features you don’t want or need.

I will use folder tracks but I don’t want them to pop up in the mixer