From Protools to Cubase

Hello.
I recently start using Cubase - (from Protools) and I am very happy. Everything is running so smooth. (making large Orchestral sessions)

I miss 2 things from Protools

  1. Protools instrument tracks (Cubase audio tracks) works also as a midi track this make my sessions track list half the size as in Cubase - Dear Steinberg please consider doing something similar.

  2. Protools have a master track, when I open that everything will automatically be routed through that track.
    Dear Steinberg please consider doing something similar. :smiley:

These are small things that would suit a Cubase session.

Hi - welcome to Cubase…!

I am not so familiar with ProTools - would you explain a little more on these points please.? Cubase does have Instrument Tracks of course that combine audio and Midi info/control for a given VST instrument.

How does this ‘Master Track’ work exactly in ProTools…? I don’t think there is an equivalent in Cubase, but I could have just misunderstood something…

Thx.
Let me try to explain how the instrument tracks works
I open an instrument and put “Kontakt” in it - with 4 outputs -(this instrument contains all my brass instruments 4 in all)
Now I open 4 instrument tracks and link the outputs from Kontakt to them. on the instrument tracks I can put inserts and sends (as on normal audio tracks) AND IT ALSO WORKS AS A MIDI TRACK.
(In Cubase I both have midi tracks and audio tracks so the track count is double)

I think I learned how I could use Cubase stereo track as a master track

You can use an Instrument Track instead of a MIDI Track in Cubase. This combines both the MIDI & Audio into a single Track. These can be configured in a variety of ways. There is a whole chapter in the Ops Manual with all the details. If you create a configuration that you’d like to reuse you can save it as part of a template or a Track Preset.

THX for the feedback, but I think I will have to have an instrument (like Kontakt ) on all instrument tracks - what I am looking for is the ability to use the instrument track as an output from Kontakt so I dont need the midi tracks.

You might not be understanding how this works.

In any case having one instrument on each track in Cubase does not result in much change in asio load. (aka overall performance).

If this doesn’t apply to your question, maybe you could lay out what you want to do, since “what I am looking for is the ability to use the instrument track as an output from Kontakt so I dont need the midi tracks.” does not compute. :wink:

In Cubase you would load one instrument track, assign it to Kontakt, load your brass section into kontakt on different channels.

In the Instrument track you would have the midi for all the brass, each horn on the corresponding midi channel.

Then you activate more outputs of said instrument track. These will show up as returns in the mixer, and as automation lanes under the Instrument Track.

Cubase is quite advanced and more flexible than pro tools when it comes to this stuff.

I see what you mean - I hope anyway that your developers will look into the fact that it could be nice to get rid of all the midi tracks and use the audio tracks that kontakt created instead as both midi track and audio track at the same time (instrument track)
This would help the track count.

I’m not actually sure you do.

There is no reason (with one minor exception) that you ever need to use any midi tracks in a project. So you can choose to simply not use them. If you don’t use them they won’t increase your track count.

MIDI Tracks exist (and will likely continue to exist) for two reasons. 1) Backwards compatibility with older projects that pre-date the introduction of Instrument Tracks. 2) There is a sub-set of Cubase users who exclusively use Rack Instruments & MIDI Tracks and never use Instrument Tracks.

In any case the existence of MIDI Tracks should not increase your track count. If you think it does you have some conceptual confusion going on. :wink:

FYI, the developers don’t belong to Steve. He’s just another user like you or me (except he is able to answer so many questions that they made him a forum moderator) and doesn’t work for Steinberg.

Just a side note, there are other reasons for MIDI tracks, for instance using MIDI to control a plugin on an audio track.


As to the OP, I think he is explaining that when you load an instrument in ProToos like Kontakt, the MIDI data/notation exists on the new audio output tracks from Kontakt. That’s what he is requesting - Combined MIDI tracks with VSTi output Audio channels.

Can you elaborate on how that compares with Instrument Tracks where both MIDI data & a VST’s audio output are all part of a single track, even though you generally view the Midi or audio in different Windows? Are you saying the MIDI data would then somehow be visible in the MixConsole (or the audio in the Project Window)? And if so what purpose would that serve? If you have ProTools perhaps a screen shot would help.

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure and haven’t used ProTools since audio school (what like 10 years now, time slips!)

I’m still trying to make sense of the OPs idea, I think it has more to do with multi-channel audio out plugins perhaps. So with a Cubase Instrument track with Kontakt loaded as the instrument - you could potentially have 16 Kontakt outputs with 16 different instruments on 16 different MIDI Channels. If you activate all outputs, you get 8 stereo or 16 mono audio tracks listed beneath the instrument track - If I’m not mistaken (mostly working in audio myself), you still only have one MIDI track (The Instrument Track). I think what the OP is proposing is that each of the 8stereo/16mono tracks could have MIDI events on them, instead of having to create separate MIDI tracks that are routed to the instrument track.

See attached picture.
Screenshot 2017-06-14 00.30.20.png

ResonantMind, you are right.
That’s how it is working in logic too.
Result is less tracks on the arrangement.

And this should be implement in Cubase.

If Resonant Mind has it right, then you should use one Track Instrument per Kontakt instance. Then you have track that has an audio output. Yes, you will have an instance of Kontakt on each one, but it doesn’t matter performance-wise in Cubase, and it’s much more flexible than what you are talking about.

The problem here is the usual one seen by people switching from other programs– the difficulty of understanding Cubase’s paradigms that differ from the user’s previous software.

As an experiment, create a Track Instrument for each of your Kontakt instances to understand, if you haven’t already.

That definitely works as a work around but it’s still sort of a cumbersome workflow kink. What would be interesting is if Cubase automatically created these tracks as a tree, and then the top most track would become a VCA for all of them.

I have made a short video - that shows how instrument tracks works in Protools - can anyone help me get the same setup in Cubase?
https://vimeo.com/221991353

You don’t believe me, but I’ll give it one more shot.

Three ways:
1.)
a) Create a rack instrument, load your plugin, load the instruments; activate all the outputs you need.
b) Create midi tracks routed to the plugin, on the corresponding channels
c) Select the outputs in the Instrument tabs of the midi tracks.

a) Create a Track instrument, load your plugin, load the instruments; activate all the outputs you need.
b) Create midi tracks routed to the plugin, on the corresponding channels
c) Select the outputs in the Instrument tabs of the midi tracks.

a) Create a Track instrument, load one instrument
b) Repeat for each instrument.

I think his request is for the sake of minimizing # of steps and MIDI channels taking space, when MIDI and outputs from VSTis could be combined.

OK, having watched your video I still can’t see how this is substantially different than what happens in Cubase if you use any of the methods Steve outlines. Granted the exact steps vary between the two DAWs. You say you need six tracks to do this in Cubase. But if, for example, you use Steve’s method 3 (the method I use the most, but the others work fine if you prefer to have multiple instruments in a single Kontakt instance) you will end up with three not six Instrument Tracks in the Project Window (similar to where you show inputting the MIDI in your video) and those will correspond one-to-one to three audio output channels in the MixConsole (again similar to what you show in the video).

Perhaps you could make a video of Cubase so we can see how you end up with six Tracks.