I was wondering if there are any plans to add ties to 2nd ending? In all versions of Finale including Print Music, you can tie forward and backward in 2nd endings with no restrictions. I know that a work-around in Dorico is Engrave Mode. However, that feature is not available in Dorico 6 SE. And a simple keystroke would make it even better.
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, it’s definitely been mentioned before, and it’s on the list of things that the developers plan to add.
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To obtain a tie into the second ending using Dorico SE, you could enter a whole grace note at the start of that ending as shown in the first measure below. Then select the grace note and tie it to the following note as shown in the second measure. Now set the Scale property of the grace note to Normal as shown in the third measure. Finally, activate the Color property of the grace note and change its Opacity on macOS or Alpha channel on Windows to zero to obtain the fourth measure:
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Thank you for the suggestion. I will give it a try.
Thank you John for the tip. The music I am notating is for choir with SAT. I tried it and it does work. But I did discover a couple of issues. 1) If you have to include accidentals with the following note, it has to be on the grace note as well in order to tie to the grace note and when you change the color of the grace note, it leaves a blank space between the accidental and the note. 2) If the main note is above or below the stave, the line that runs through the note remains after making the changes. I also noticed that after making the changes, I had to go back and redo the timing on the music from that point to the end of the song because for some reason, everything shifted to the right by 2 beats. But an easy copy and paste fixed that issue.
Again, thank you for helping me with my issue.
Hello John, I just wanted to give an update. After playing around with the grace note features, I found out that I can also hide the accidentals to fix the other issue I discovered. Again, thank you for the information.
John,
I viewed your comment on a backdoor way to get a tie to show up in a second ending. The method worked great except the note that is being tied is 3 ledger lines above the staff and when I set the opacity of the grace note to 0 the ledger lines are still there. Do you know of any way to hide the ledger lines?
Thanks.
In Engrave mode, use the “Hide ledger lines” property.
Edit: Oh, John’s post was a workaround for Dorico SE, which doesn’t have Engrave mode. But @ghfagan51, don’t you have Pro, or am I misremembering?
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I do have Pro. You remember correctly. Good memory. I will try this again and see if I can get the ledger lines to disappear.
Thank you, as always.
Gary
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asherber,
Hmm. I did that but when I go back to Write Mode the ledger lines reappear and when I switch to Engrave Mode the ledger lines disappear but the grace note is no longer hidden. It comes back. I must still be doing something wrong.
Are you looking at the same layout? Did you have “Set local properties” set to locally or globally? (It seems that “Hide notehead” is a global property, but “Hide ledger lines” is a local property.)
If none of that works, can you post your project, or a cut down version of it with just a few measures?
Aaron,
Hmmm. I am not real familiar yet with the Global and Local aspect of the program. I am attaching a mostly deleted version of the piece with just a small section visible. The problem, as you will see, is in m. 61 (the 2nd ending) in the flute part. After I get that part fixed I will need to do the same for all other tied parts as well.
Thanks so much. If you figure it out it would be great if you could explain how you did it, if it is not too much trouble, so I can make the tie work in all the other staves.
Thanks again.
Gary
Second Ending Tie Issue.dorico (1.5 MB)
There are a couple of things going on here. The first one is that the ledger lines seem to show in Galley view even when they’re marked as hidden; they do not show in Page view (or in Engrave mode).
In terms of local/global: Some properties in Dorico are local and some are global. Local properties in Dorico apply to an item only in the current layout; global properties apply to the item in all layouts in which that item appears. You can choose to view local or global properties with this toggle in the Properties panel:
(I would wager that most users usually keep this on All.)
In addition, when you are setting a property which is defined as local, you can choose to set it only locally, or to set it globally – that is, in all layouts.
In this case, since you want to hide the notehead and ledger lines in all layouts, and since “Hide ledger lines” is a local property, you want to set local properties globally. But I can see, by using the Show filter, that you set this property only locally. Color is also a local property and was set locally. For that matter, Scale is also a local property.
Here’s how I made things consistent (except for Galley view, as noted).
- In Engrave mode, select the note
- Open the Properties panel and make sure that “Set local properties” is set to Globally
- Toggle off the Custom Scale property
- Toggle Scale off and back on; this changes it from a local property to a global one, since you’re setting local properties globally
- Toggle Color on and back off (in Pro, you don’t need to use Color)
- Toggle Hide Ledger Lines off and back on
- Toggle Hide Notehead on
Oddly, the tie doesn’t show in Engrave mode or Page view, which was the point of this whole exercise. This seems to be related to condensing – if you turn that off, the tie appears. (Actually, the note and ledger lines appear as well, because above we set properties on the condensed staff, although you can hide them again with condensing off.) I’m not sure how to work around this.
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Thank you so much for the comprehensive explanation. It is much appreciated. There is quite a bit for me to digest here. I will work on it tomorrow. I have grown to appreciate Dorico more and more over the past few months. My posts have gotten less frequent over the past while. It sure would be nice if the developers could address this issue at some point.
Thanks again. It is wonderful that you have helped me so much and I hope to eventually get good enough with the program that I can begin to help others.
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Yes, I recently found out that several properties regarding visibility of noteheads, stems, and ledger lines, and also accidentals, behave independently between condensed and uncondensed staves. Notes on a condensed staff behave like a copy of the original, they’re not the original itself. Therefore, you need to hide all those attributes again in the condensed score.
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Aaron,
I think I understand this and will work on it today.
I am studying the message you sent yesterday and trying to soak it in. There is a lot there.
Do I understand correctly that if I select “Local Only” (and am looking at my full score layout) that something I change (like a text) will appear only in the score and would not appear in the parts (or in the part layout but not in the score). Conversely, if I set it to “Global Only” the text I add would appear in both the full score AND the individual parts?
Now, if I have that straight in my head, I will then tackle the message you sent this morning regarding condensing. So if I understand this information correct pertaining to the message from PjotB, If I have condensing turned on in the full score, I would need to hide those elements such as ledger lines in both the condensed score layout as well as in the uncondensed score to make them behave properly.
Whew! I have to think about this if you can confirm that I am on the right track with what I have written above.
Thanks so much for your expert information as always.
Gary
Right, that’s the idea. A project could have multiple full score layouts, and a player could appear in multiple part layouts, which is why the language is more general – Global will affect all layouts in which that staff appears. But for most common uses, it’s just the (one) score and (one) part.
Note also that this only applies to properties which are defined as local properties. Some properties are always global and will always reflect in all layouts.
Right.
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To get the ties from the grace notes to appear on the condensed staff, give the grace notes laissez vibrer ties and adjust their positions in engrave mode:
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John,
O.K. I will give that a try. This seems WAY more complicated than it should be as this type of marking is very common. It really needs to be addressed.
I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again.
Gary
John,
You method of using the Laissez vibrer worked well. I finally got it looking pretty good.
Thank you and Aaron both for this rather involved situation..
Gary
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