Hi, and a newbie question on "Repeats"

Hi everyone, I’m new here so please be kind :slight_smile:
I purchased Dorico Elements after trying the free SE version. I love what I’m seeing, so thank you Steinberg.

Maybe it’s beginner’s bad luck, but I have a question on repeating certain parts of a score. I write pretty basic (as far as format is concerned) jazz/blues songs akin to the “lead sheets” in the popular songbooks. I have an issue where after a “Dal Segno al Coda”, Dorico ignores a first repeat and goes directly to a second repeat, totally ignoring repeat marks of the 1st repeat. To clarify :-

  • ¦: Section A (say 16 bars) is repeated with 1. at bar #15 and the repeat mark at end of bar #16, :¦
  • The “segno” is at bar #9
  • Section B (say also 16 bars) continues and starts with 2. at bar #17 - the “To Coda” mark is at the end of bar #18 and the “D.S. al Coda” mark is at the end of bar #34 (end of Section B)
  • The Coda is 3 bars long (no relevance, but …)

What plays is :-
Section A, with repeats - OK
Section B - OK up to D.S.al Coda - OK
Picks up from “Segno” at bar #9, but ignores the 1. repeat mark at bar #15 and continues from bar #17 - NOT OK
Reaches the “To Coda” at bar #18 and jumps to the Coda - OK

Musically, it should still cycle through the repeat marks in section A … or am I wrong ?
Any idea how I can make section A repeat after coming from a D.S. al Coda ?

Thank you,
Ted

Welcome to the forum.
Goto Play > Playback Options > Repeats, and tick the “Play repeats after D.S./D.C. jump” box, then Apply and close. Job done.

Thank you for your help Pianoleo. Unfortunately, I cannot see any “Playback Options” in Play. I’m sorry, I should have said that I am using Windows 10, so maybe it’s called something else in Windows. I do however have a “Playback Template …” and going there I noticed that it was set up with “HSSE (SE)” and I changed this to “HSSE (Elements)” as that is the version that’s installed. But this did not help …
Can you please tell me how to navigate to the “Options” ? Thanks.

Ah. It looks like you’re out of luck with Elements - Playback Options are fixed rather than customisable. In Pro, Playback Options is on the same Play menu as Playback Template.

Okay, many thanks. Saves me wasting (more) time looking for a solution. There’s a workaround, but it’ll mean being more verbose on the score (i.e. more pages). I can only hope that this may be included sometime in the Elements version.

What might work — but I’m not really sure for this situation — is you send your file to somebody you trust, and who owns Dorico pro. He/she modifies the option, saves the file and sends it back to you…
Or use the empty file attached here, import your flows in there, it might work (to save space, I chose silence playback template, and the only thing I modified is the repeat option in the playback options. Unzip it, open it, import your music in it and tell me if it does work…
Plays repeats.dorico.zip (513 KB)

You can set this on an individual basis from the properties panel with the DS marking selected.

@MarcLarcher … Thank you, have downloaded and I will try your solution on Friday (I’m out until then).
@andgle … I think I tried this already, but will have another go just in case. Thx.

@MarcLarcher : I did what you suggested and results are very promising. Yes, after the “segno” it does repeat from the 1. repeat marker (not going directly to 2. as previously), but starts at bar 0 (zero) whereas the “start” repeat marker in the score is at bar 1 (I have a 2-beat pickup bar at the beginning).

So, basically I’m halfway there. Is there any way to “cure” this ?

@The Developers :
I cannot understand why a “pro” application does not follow musical rules (and then puts the “cure” into a higher version !). This is basic functionality I’m asking for and should be included even into the most basic application.

Peace !

That is strange… If the start of the repeat is clearly on bar 1, there’s no reason Dorico starts before… Can you send a cut-down project showing that behavior? (Simply delete the notes…)

Plays repeats-1.zip (592 KB)
This is a test file. It has notes and chords and will be used sometime for something … but for now just a simple structure.
I’ve beefed up the tempo to 300 so as to save time when playing through. I now have to find out how to upload the file …

[Edit] The file is uploaded and attached. Thx.

Hi … Daniel & Co and/or @MarcLarcher

I’ve not received any reply to my “repeat issue” after uploading the file. If you’re confused then please look at what happens after the score passes the “segno” of the “Dal Segno Al Coda” … it honours the repeat sign, but starts at the beginning (which is a pick-up bar). The corresponding repeat sign is at bar #1. What is happening is musically incorrect.

Thanks for any help on this.
Ted

I tried it, and I see what you mean about it starting at the pickup. I think one problem is that the segno is forcing Dorico back to the middle of the first repeat ending. Is that what you intend? It seems Dorico struggles to interpret it.

I know this falls in the category of “Why would you do that?” answers, which are generally not helpful, but I can’t help observing that it is a bit confusing. At least, I was confused as a player. The segno placing the repeat before the 1/2 endings threw me. Which ending is it supposed to take?

If it were me, I would notate the structure differently. It’s ambiguous enough to be problematic to a sight-reader.

Is this what you intended the structure to be? https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y0o271346tsgo9/Repeats%20modified.dorico?dl=0

Thank you Dankreider … I’ve downloaded and take a look. In jazz, lead sheets tend to be either one or two pages long, therefore the more condensed they are (respecting the rules of course) the better. My example is not unusual … in fact the test file I uploaded was a “quick rendition” of a piece I wrote which had the same “issue” (i.e. repeats not being honoured or starting in the wrong place). I just basically removed the melody line.
My understanding is that no matter where you land with a “segno” … if you meet a repeat sign later, it is automatically the first, followed by the second, just as if you had a “clean slate”.

I’ll take a look tomorrow as it’s late here. Much appreciated and thank you !

Hi dankreider, no unfortunately your version is missing out the two repeat run-throughs from Bar #1 thru to Bar #16 (on repeat Bars #17 and #18) before hitting the Coda sign and Coda. So, in effect, it is 32 bars shorter. Of course I can write this all out with minimum repeat signs or no “D.S. al Coda”, no (real) problem … it’s more pages.

But, for me it’s very unusual that a software should TOTALLY IGNORE a “start” repeat sign (at Bar #1) and start from a pickup bar (which normally is used only once at the very start of a piece) at Bar #0 during a repeat. Nevertheless, I thank you for trying.

This is not a rant, but from what I’ve been reading on the Forum, I think 99% of the people using Dorico are classically involved and Dorico is brilliant for such scores. Maybe in a future version the developers could include some of the jazz idioms and embellishments.

AND, I am still very content with Dorico. Thanks.

I have a related question. I have D.S. that works fine, but Dorico playback blows through the repeat that comes after it has D.S.ed.
It would be nice to be able to select the repeat bar in question and in Properties menu below, having the ability to flip a switch next to “always observe repeat sign” or something to that effect.
The pic shows the repeat bar that is not observed after doing the D.S. What’s even more odd is that the “to Coda” isn’t even observed. The playback just keeps chugging along through both the repeat bar AND the “to Coda”… :confused:

So I did some further experimenting and I found a switch in the Properties pane “play n times”. I hoped that if I set it to 3x, then it would maybe allow it to be played the “third” time AFTER going back for the dal segno, but no such luck. It plays three times only on the first pass. So this must be a function of the dal segno. How about a property associated with the DS sign where one could specify if all repeats are to be observed as written?

OK. So, I’ve solved my own question–I found a “replay repeats” switch in the Properties pane when the D.S. marker is selected.
So I’ve only got one other question:
How can I get the two repeat texts to be layered one above the other over the same last bar?
I think someone reading it the way it is now may get confused.
I can play around with the custom scaling in order to get one ahead of the other, but when I try to put them both in the same bar, they overlap each other. The proper position (for correct playback) is where they’re currently beside each other.
Thanks!


Two repeats overlapping.png

Is your screenshot there in galley view or in page view? It’s unusual to have both a “To Coda” instruction and a “D.S. al Coda” instruction at precisely the same rhythmic position, so Dorico doesn’t necessarily handle that situation very elegantly.

Daniel: It’s galley view, but I tried it in page view and Dorico does the same thing. At that position, on the first pass, one should D.S. al Coda 1 and on the second pass, one should jump to Coda 2. Quite common in commercial music, where there are lots of repeated sections and the need to use lead chart space efficiently.